Digidesign Eleven Rack

[chrisolson]

I can't afford the Fractal, but had never heard the GSP 1101 until last night with some clips - WOW. I might have to take a look. I'd love to get to mess around with the Eleven Rack though - seems pretty cool for what I've seen so far.

[jgcable]

I can't afford the Fractal, but had never heard the GSP 1101 until last night with some clips - WOW. I might have to take a look. I'd love to get to mess around with the Eleven Rack though - seems pretty cool for what I've seen so far.

Yea Chris, the clips sound great. I would still like to hear an A/B between the real tube amp live and the software version of it live.
My guess is that its similar in tone but completely different in presence and feel.

[jgcable]

and let me tell you another thing to consider when purchasing a $2000.00 software amp not including the power or the cabs for it.
It kills at home. It kills in the studio. It is awesome fun to tweak.
The only time its not fun is when you show up at a gig with a rig that almost cost you $3000.00 and there is some dude with a ratty Peavey 5150 head and ratty 4 x 12 cab literally pealing the paint off of the walls for a total admission price of $1000.00.
I still say that all this AXE FX and GSL1101 and ELEVEN RACK craze is just a fad just like all the live sofware modeling amps when they were super popular. I got sucked into it back then, you guys talked me down and I have been full tube ever since. Couldn't be happier.
Software modeling amps are great for home and studio use though. Just leave them home and bring your real amp to the gig.
FLAME ON!!!

[Matt_B]

and let me tell you another thing to consider when purchasing a $2000.00 software amp not including the power or the cabs for it.

The whole point of modelers is to run through the PA so you don't need a power amp and cab(s) not to mention the fact the folks spend $2K or more on plain old guitar heads and sometimes just preamps.

It kills at home. It kills in the studio. It is awesome fun to tweak.
The only time its not fun is when you show up at a gig with a rig that almost cost you $3000.00 and there is some dude with a ratty Peavey 5150 head and ratty 4 x 12 cab literally pealing the paint off of the walls for a total admission price of $1000.00.

Yeah, and the rig you used as an example only gets a few sounds all of which are similar. A modelers can get significantly more (hundreds) varied sounds at the touch of the button.

I still say that all this AXE FX and GSL1101 and ELEVEN RACK craze is just a fad just like all the live sofware modeling amps when they were super popular.

Hmm...modelers have been around for a while now and they're only getting better. Engineers are learning more and more about how to recreate the dynamics and feel of a tube amp. Processors and memory are getting faster and cheaper. There will come a day, perhaps in our lifetime, when tubes are no longer manufactured and modelers will be the new norm.

I got sucked into it back then, you guys talked me down and I have been full tube ever since. Couldn't be happier.

I'm glad you're happy with your tube amp. I was happy with a tube based rig for a long time too but then I found the Axe-FX and I'm even happier now.

Software modeling amps are great for home and studio use though. Just leave them home and bring your real amp to the gig.

You of course are entitled to your opinion but there are plenty of folks who are using modelers in live situations and they are doing just fine.

[jgcable]

The whole point of modelers is to run through the PA so you don't need a power amp and cab(s) not to mention the fact the folks spend $2K or more on plain old guitar heads and sometimes just preamps.

Yeah, and the rig you used as an example only gets a few sounds all of which are similar. A modelers can get significantly more (hundreds) varied sounds at the touch of the button.

Hmm...modelers have been around for a while now and they're only getting better. Engineers are learning more and more about how to recreate the dynamics and feel of a tube amp. Processors and memory are getting faster and cheaper. There will come a day, perhaps in our lifetime, when tubes are no longer manufactured and modelers will be the new norm.

I'm glad you're happy with your tube amp. I was happy with a tube based rig for a long time too but then I found the Axe-FX and I'm even happier now.

You of course are entitled to your opinion but there are plenty of folks who are using modelers in live situations and they are doing just fine.

First off.. I love these discussions...

there are very few players out there playing live using the PA to power a software modeling rig. Maybe solo players who showcase and do clinics but VERY few local or national touring bands.

Unless you are in a top 40 cover band or a wedding band, most guitar players only need a few sounds.

I agree... modeling and software have come a long way since the days of the Vetta. With that said... they have a long way to go. I would say that in a live setting they are about 50% there. Thats not nearly enough for most live players thus the reason that most live players use real amplifiers.

Just to qualify my response... I currently use a Randall RM100 with the Blackface, Ultra and XTC modules through a vintage Marshall 1960B loaded with T75's. For effects I have in loop 1 a yamaha SPX 90-II that I use for delay, in loop 2 a Morley Lil Alligator for solo boost and out in front I have a heavily modded GCB95 Wah thats true bypass. I sometimes throw a Chorus pedal or a flanger out in front too but very rarely.
My band does mainly Dream Theater type originals but we also have about 50 covers ranging from Sabbath to Shinedown to Pat Benetar to The Doors to Van Halen to Priest to Dokken to Ratt to The Black Crows so its pretty diverse. I never have any problem getting the tones I need with 1 amp.
I use a modeling amp for home noodling and home rehearsing. Its a great all in one package.
My band plays in clubs all over the tri-state area and we know personally all the sound guys at these clubs. The one time I brought a modeling rig to a gig and wanted to go direct to the PA they were less than happy about it. Reason.... its hard to balance a modeling amp with real stage amps. It just doesn't have the same sound live. Not even close.

[jgcable]

and yet another point I would like to make. I don't consider myself a virtuoso on guitar. I can play.. have been for 32 years and have been playing live almost the entire time. There are alot of great players out there.
With that said... I play with very few different tones. Basically, a clean and a heavy tone. I boost the heavy tone for solo's using a volume pedal in the loop. Thats it.
Now.. to the question...
Wouldn't you agree that George Lynch Dokken tone is EXTREMELY different from Ace's Kiss tone, SRV tone or EVH's tone? Of course it is.
I can nail any of those three tones with only one heavy tone. How... you may ask???
Its all in how you play it. I can sound like Lynch through just about any amp that has enough gain because I know how to play his style. If I roll down the guitar volume a little and play straight penta solo's I sound just like Ace. Roll down the volume more and put the pickup selector between the bridge and neck pickup and I sound just like SRV. How?? I can play his style.
My point is that guitar tone isn't as much in the amp as the modeling software manufacturers would lead you to believe. For the novice... sure a modeling amp will make you sound like your favorite player even if you can't play in their style but if you know a players style and can pull it off you don't need a fancy software version of that players rig to sound like them. EVH sounds like EVH whether he is playing through his signature custome made amps or a Gorilla amp and a Fender Squire guitar.
Most of the tone comes from the player... not the gear.

[Trypp Powell]

There is really no need to be firmly in one camp or the other. I own both (or all three, rather, since I also have some solid state guitar amps). All seem to have their purposes as well as strengths and weaknesses.

Many modelers have, to me, sounded like much of the tonal change was accomplished through eq rather than actual modeling of a circuit (hence the same "feel" regardless of the modeled amp).

The Eleven Rack seems to up the game a bit in the feel department. Changing the order of the fx/selected fx/selected amp changes the feel.

As great as it is, my AC30, F50, JTM45, JCM800, JC120, and Bandit aren't going anywhere.

I have never understood why someone would purchase a high end modeler like the AxeFx and then sell off Two Rocks and other great amps. A tube amp isn't a modeler and a modeler isn't a tube amp, so why not have both?

[chrisolson]

Yea Chris, the clips sound great. I would still like to hear an A/B between the real tube amp live and the software version of it live.
My guess is that its similar in tone but completely different in presence and feel.

Fun discussion going on here...anyway, back to the above quote... I don't play live, so no big deal. I've always been very haapy with the sounds I have gotten through my POD Pro too, but realize there is a certain something missing as well - my JVM gives me that when I jones for it, and I'll keep it around for that reason - that and I love the amp. Loved the Randall MTS as well...but it had too many options, and spent too much time searching for modules.

I still think the POD gives me all I need, but it would be fun to mess around with other modelers. I loved the Rocktron Replitone MP as well. One thing I will say - the POD Pro interface has always been the easiest for me to use. Plug & play - turn some knobs and you're there. I hate that everything seems to work best with proprietary footboards, but since I'm a midiot, I'll spend the money cuz I can't program shit.

The Eleven Rack looks similar to the POD in that it has KNOBS - the Fractal doesn't. I'm not willing to spend the money on the Axe-Fx - nothing against it, but I don't make any money playing, so I don't want to spend TOO much - whatever that means. The GSP has a few neat amp models that piqued my interest and they're available for less than $500 - I like that. I'll wait for the Eleven to start showing up used, and grab one then.

[jgcable]

There is really no need to be firmly in one camp or the other. I own both (or all three, rather, since I also have some solid state guitar amps). All seem to have their purposes as well as strengths and weaknesses.

Many modelers have, to me, sounded like much of the tonal change was accomplished through eq rather than actual modeling of a circuit (hence the same "feel" regardless of the modeled amp).

The Eleven Rack seems to up the game a bit in the feel department. Changing the order of the fx/selected fx/selected amp changes the feel.

As great as it is, my AC30, F50, JTM45, JCM800, JC120, and Bandit aren't going anywhere.

I have never understood why someone would purchase a high end modeler like the AxeFx and then sell off Two Rocks and other great amps. A tube amp isn't a modeler and a modeler isn't a tube amp, so why not have both?

Good points Trypp.

[Matt_B]

I have never understood why someone would purchase a high end modeler like the AxeFx and then sell off Two Rocks and other great amps.

Because some people feel that the Axe-FX can replace their tube amps, myself included, so why keep what you don't need?

A tube amp isn't a modeler and a modeler isn't a tube amp, so why not have both?

Personally, I didn't see a need to keep both. I don't miss my tube gear at all. I don't even GAS for amps or effects any more which is actually nice for a change.

[6string40]

It's all in what your wants and needs are. I currently play in two completely different cover bands and I write my own originals at home. I need a lot of versatility in my tones and effects due to the different styles we play in each of those two cover bands. Once I find the right mix of individuals for my original project, I will more than likely go back to all tube for that band as I want my own sound at that point in time. This isn't a total replacement for me, but something I feel I need right now to do what I'm currently doing.

In no way do I feel that tube amps are obsolete or that modelers are better. JG is more than happy with his tube amps. And for Matty B, he's just as happy with the AxeFX. But like Trypp said, what's wrong with having both?

I have not been able to find exactly what I want in a tube amp unfortunately. I am very satisfied with my Mesa 2:90 and the ADA MP-1 has gotten me close, but not quite. I think my next step will eventually be to add a Randall modular preamp to my rack--then I will have the best of both worlds.

[jgcable]

It's all in what your wants and needs are. I currently play in two completely different cover bands and I write my own originals at home. I need a lot of versatility in my tones and effects due to the different styles we play in each of those two cover bands. Once I find the right mix of individuals for my original project, I will more than likely go back to all tube for that band as I want my own sound at that point in time. This isn't a total replacement for me, but something I feel I need right now to do what I'm currently doing.

In no way do I feel that tube amps are obsolete or that modelers are better. JG is more than happy with his tube amps. And for Matty B, he's just as happy with the AxeFX. But like Trypp said, what's wrong with having both?

I have not been able to find exactly what I want in a tube amp unfortunately. I am very satisfied with my Mesa 2:90 and the ADA MP-1 has gotten me close, but not quite. I think my next step will eventually be to add a Randall modular preamp to my rack--then I will have the best of both worlds.

Your combination of the Mesa and the ADA are a tried and proven rig that has been giving players great sound for many many years now. I am sure it sounds great

[jgcable]

I just want to be clear to all who have one of these modeling software driven rigs.
I think they sound great. The clips online are incredible. I love technology.
I just happen to be happy with my RM100 and I had a tough time using modeling live.
I gave it a gallant try though.

[deflep]

I think that modeling has gotten a bad name because there were so many cheesy products that tried to recreate other people's tones.

For purists, that's almost "cheating".

But if you had 12 different amps in front of you that you could use just as if they were "real" and also put some pedals in front of..for all under $1000 then that sounds really good! Who could argue with that.

The Eleven Rack fights you. If you are sloppy the 11R will not cover up your playing like a Line 6 amp. It's really amazing how geniune it feels.

I have a 100 WATT CAA OD100SE+ which pushes air in a way the 11R can't ( at least through monitors ). However, I don't think one replaces the other. Both can live side by side and depending on your mood you use whatever works for you.

I even plugged into my 5 WATT Blackstar today because I wasn't in the mood to use the 11R.

Basically, it's all good! Tube amps rock, I'm sure the AXEfx is insane based on many endorsements, and I wouldn't even mind going raw into a 5150.

I think also the 11R is probably the most ideal home recording setup. You don't have to mic cabinets and you can experiment without any pain.


Alex

[Trypp Powell]

On a negative side, Digidesign customer support is a complete hassle. I have a bad output jack (a problem which apparently was common on many early units) and getting a replacement is a royal pain. Once it is fixed, I may sell this and just bite the bullet on an AxeFX.