To all of you who play: how loud is your amp?

[BenoA]

It had been a while since I had gigged. Last Friday, my band from the past year did its first show.

During the sound check, I managed to set my amp (Marshall DSL50) to a sweet spot and as you'll imagine, it was set quite loud. Soundman must have been deaf and said everything was ok. :think:

But during the first song, a good buddy of mine that I do trust his ears, came to me and told me that I was too damn loud for the whole mix, so I had to cut the volume and lost my nice tone...

I had left my attenuator at home as we played a venue that was a bit larger than where I had played in the past.

So what do you do guys? Cranck until your ears bleed and never mind with the soundguy? Use an attenuator? Bought a smaller wattage amp?

Let me know.

[markD]

i use a 120 watt head on stage. but i do not run it at 120 watts. rivera has a function similar to what boogie calls simul-class. it modifies the power stage of the amp. my rivera can run (this is X's 2 because the amp is stereo; 2 60 watt power amps in one head):

60 watts - pentode/full power
30 watts - triode/full power
15 watts - pentode/ half power
8 watts - triode/ half power

most gigs, i run the power stage at 15 watts. it allows me to goose the power tubes more and get a throatier sound. i still run my master volume on the gain channel at about 4 (pretty loud) and the master around 8 on the clean channel (the channel volume is way down around 2 so the sound is CLEAN).

i have never been told to turn down, and my rig faces the crowd - not the wall or across the stage.

[Endrik]

I have a very loud amp and I play very loudly but the sound engineer doesn't have to worry about it as I don't put the cab so that it faces the audience. Besides the musicians I play with play loudly and most of the concerts are pretty loud anyway over here.

[Trussrod]

I don't like to play loud. The last thing I want to deal with when I play is ringing in my ears. I have a JCM 2000 DSL 50-watt amp, too. It's great to have the head room but the amp doesn't sound good unless it's turned up to about four and the tubes are warm. Maybe I should get an attenuator--can you suggest a good one?

[BenoA]

Markd, that Rivera amp sounds like a very versatile one with that power reducer built-in.

Endrik... Make room for me, I'm moving where you live!

Trussrod, I use a Weber Mass Lite... When I don't forget it at home...

[jgcable]

I turn up as loud as I could get away with with my RM100 and a 1/2 stack marshall cab.
99% of the time, the sound man will tell me its too loud at the sound check. I will turn it down to suit him and as soon as the gig starts I just start turning up until I think it sound good for me. Bottom line for me, if I don't like my stage mix, I'm not having fun. Of course.. this all depends on the monitor system. If its really good, I barely have to turn up at all. If its not good, I crank my amp because my drummer beats his drums to death.

[Jack Napalm]

I turn up as loud as I could get away with with my RM100 and a 1/2 stack marshall cab.
99% of the time, the sound man will tell me its too loud at the sound check. I will turn it down to suit him and as soon as the gig starts I just start turning up until I think it sound good for me. Bottom line for me, if I don't like my stage mix, I'm not having fun. Of course.. this all depends on the monitor system. If its really good, I barely have to turn up at all. If its not good, I crank my amp because my drummer beats his drums to death.

I think we have the same sound man. I usually crank it up during the first song. It sucks not hearing yourself. Sometimes I'll point my speaker to the outside just a bit and stand away from the center a bit more. With guitar cabs being so directional it can help and your singer will appreciate it too.

[Twitch]

90% of the gigs my old band did, we did with minimal reinforcement, vocals, kick drum and snare at the most, sometimes just vocals. Those were the fun shows, probly sounded like ass out front, but we got to crank our amps. Only a couple of times were we told to turn our amps down. One of which, the sound man requested I turn down the bass on my head and another time I was asked to turn down period. I was only on 3 to begin with and my 900 I had at the time sounded its best on 4. Those couple of shows were a real drag, but I made it through them. There were a couple of shows where we were told to aim our cabs at each other and turn up to where we wanted, those shows were good ones too.

[Trussrod]

Trussrod, I use a Weber Mass Lite... When I don't forget it at home...

Thanks

[Scooter]

I usually don't go past 3 1/2 on my stage rig, but I also run a processor and not the amps natural drive. I have a VK 100 watt head through a Marshall 4x12 slant front cab. It seems like the 2 slanted speakers make a difference how I cut through on the stage sound. If you found your 'sweet spot' with the amp, run with it. A good sound guy can get a good mix. I think I'd have told him "If its too loud, your too old!"

[charvel750]

I like to have everything louder than everything else.

[Endrik]

Endrik... Make room for me, I'm moving where you live!

You'll keep wishing it until you hear how most of the bands sound like over here, 5 minutes in the concert and then it's adieu!

[Newc]

Your "friend" may have his ass parked on your side of the stage, and isn't hearing the whole band centered in his field of listening, so yeah, your amp will be louder.

When gigging, "down" means "up". When someone not in the band (and that includes the soundguy) says to turn something "down", he's really saying to turn it "up".

Soundguys don't like to tweak their settings anymore than we do, so once they stick a mic in front of your cab they think their curcuitry has to cook like tubes to sound good, so they run it hot. If you're peaking past their settings, they say you're too loud.

As well, if you're louder than their PFL/Mute button can control, they get pissy because you, the artist, are in control, not them (and they perceive themselves to be "sound-sculptors", not "workers", and thus they have an artistic view of their "sound design" and "sound engineering" - reason enough not to trust them and just blast it out the back wall).

[Dreamland_Rebel]

i have a DSL100 - i usually run it around 3 to 3.5 for shows. the louder you turn up the more bass is added to the signal. this is natural. so to compensate i usually turn my treble down. this lets me get good tones without pissing the sound man off, and drowning your band mates out. and trust me, pissing the sound man off is the worst thing you can do for your band.

[Spivonious]

The answer to this is low wattage amps. The Beatles played Shey Stadium with 100W amps and only did that so they could hear themselves on stage over the screaming fans. Using a 100W amp in a club is like trying to park a monster truck on the street.

Guitar speakers have an efficiency of about 100dB/W/m, so for every watt of power, the sound at 1m is 100dB. At 3 meters, it comes down to about 90dB, which is about the level you'd hear in a movie theater during an action sequence. I think for a club packed with people, 10-15W is all you need. For every 10dB increase, you need to double the wattage.

edit - just a note, if you're after clean headroom, then by all means pack on the watts. But if you're after an overdriven sound, the fewer watts the better.