ultimate 80s style distortion-overdrive pedal

[veniculum]

Hey there...I've posted similar questions in the past...but I'm getting things tweaked with my setup, and I'm at the point where I have everything i need. The only question is, do I want to stick with the amp's distortion or go for something else.

So right now I'm running a Line 6 Spider Valve 212 (Bogner)....with an additional Mesa Boogie 1x12 cabinet attached. The amp itself's got a million models and a bunch of different effects (including distortion). My current set of pedals includes the following: I've got a Boss compressor/sustainer; Boss EQ; MXR Phase 90; and a Decimator noise gate. Delay, Chorus, and Distortion are coming from the amp.

My first question is...and maybe somebody can finally put this in terms that I understand...what the hell is the difference between distortion and overdrive? I've been playing for over 25 years, and never really got it. There are both distortion and overdrive pedals...some people use one, some use the other, and some use both. This confuses the hell out of me.

Anyway...I'm quite content with the delay and chorus built right into the amp...so I'm not too concerned with purchasing pedals that will do the same thing. However, with distortion, it's always a big question. I don't hate what the amp provides...but I'm not completely thrilled either. I'm really going for a 80's style sound...sort of George Lynch meets, Nuno, meets Satriani.
Does anyone know of just one pedal that really captures this (and then, of course, how do you set it up - i.e. what are it's settings).

I'd really appreciate any comments. Please note, I really am not going to go the all in one pedal board (i.e. Boss GT10, etc) route...and I just don't have the time or need to go with rack effects). So with what I have right now, I'm thinking of just adding a distortion pedal...but I want all killer or nothing.

Please help!
Thanks guys.

[warlok]

I can't say which would be good for you but to explain distortion and overdrive - Distortion pedals have their own type of distortion sound. And you use them mainly with a clean channel on an amp. So you're not using the amps gain channel's sound, what comes out of the pedal is your distortion. Like if you use "XXXXX" pedal, you are getting something similar to Dimebags sound. Or the "ZZZZ" pedal is going to give you Hetfield's... etc.. An overdrive pedal is meant to push a tube amps tubes harder than the amp does on it's own. so it's the amp's sound but just being pushed harder. If you put it between the guitar and amp input, it will drive the preamp tubes to distort more, producing a more distorted signal out of the preamp. So if you have a solid state preamp, it's not pushing tubes and normally doesn't sound very good. My "standard of thinking" for using a distortion or overdrive is if it's going into solid state, distortion. Going into tube, use overdrive. I use mine with the gain at 0 and output at 7 or above. Not trying to change the tone of the amps distortion, just push it harder and get more distortion. The different pedals have different characteristics and voicing so picking one is personal preference. Like a tubescreameris pretty mid-heavy. A SD1 is more balanced. A MXR Wylde overdrive is a bit mid-scooped. Etc..
That's how I understand it, hope it helps..

[Grandturk]

These days people use "overdrive" to mean a softer, power amp style break-up. And "distortion" to mean hi-gain preamp style break-up. Overdrive pedals typically have a softer, rounder distortion sound while distortion pedals will have a harder, more buzzy sound.

Further, a lot of people use "overdrive" pedals as line boosters, meaning level set high and gain set low so it just increases the output of the guitar into the amp which will drive the pre-amp harder and break up, or "clip" the signal, creating distortion.

Its all "distortion" anytime the clean sound wave is clipped.

[Nightbat]

Distortion pedals have their own type of distortion sound. And you use them mainly with a clean channel on an amp. So you're not using the amps gain channel's sound, what comes out of the pedal is your distortion. Like if you use "XXXXX" pedal, you are getting something similar to Dimebags sound. Or the "ZZZZ" pedal is going to give you Hetfield's... etc.. An overdrive pedal is meant to push a tube amps tubes harder than the amp does on it's own. so it's the amp's sound but just being pushed harder.

Hate to break it to ya, but SD1s and Tubescreamers are distortions used VERY MUCH to push already distorted amps even further
and for that it doesn't really matter what you prefer: overdrives, distortions or even equalizers, just tools for the job

but on the solidstate overdriven amps I'd say you're spot on

[bluesymetal]

A lot of Overdrive pedals and Distortion pedals are similar, overdrives usually provide milder amounts of gain and pedals labeled distortion usually have lots of gain. You can use a distortion pedal as a boost pedal just like an overdrive, certain deathmetal bands use Metalzone's set to clean boosts into tube amps (I forget the band's name I'm thinking of). As for the OP, I Don't think you would want to boost that line 6 as it's basiclly a modular (ie:100110011) preamp into a tube power section. If you don't like the basic distortion on the amp I would either look for another amp or try using the clean channels and hitting it with a distortion pedal. There are a tone of great ones and both Satch and Vai have a history of using just a cheap old BOSS DS-1. Have fun checking out pedals there are TONS of distortions going from $40.00 up past $200.00 for some boutique stuff. You could probably even start with Satch's new sig satchurator which I believe is both an overdrive and distortion. Oh yeah there are some really good pedals that offer OD and distortion in one box like the jeckly and hyde. Then there are some people that get great results stacking different od's and distortions. It's a whole can of worms lol.

[veniculum]

Thanks guys...this does clear things up for me from a technical level. Ever since I can remember, I just used the amp's distortion...all the way back from the early days when I had a Fender solid state amp (using the same Mesa Boogie cabinet that I have now)....i really didn't use any kind of effects (except reverb)...and while it was raunchy, and when played loud, it worked....it was never the sound that I really wanted. At the time, I remember walking into Sam Ash and listening to a guy playing with a rack, and thinking..goddamm..if I only had the cash for that, I'd totally buy everything on that rack. Over time, I'd played with some racks...but never purchased. We had a rehearsal studio with rack effects and a mixing board...I never really touched any of it just because i was so overwhelmed.

I appreciate the explanation of the amp I'm using now (the spider valve 212). Funny thing is, it sounded really bad-ass in the store. Since then, I've never really been able to duplicate that. Hence, my quest for a great pedal. A few weeks after I bought my amp, we were playing around with the Boss board at Guitar Center, and I had turned on the Boss "Metal Core" (or was it metal zone..forgot)....I also turned on the delay, chorus, and compressor/sustainer...along with the EQ...and whoever set that up was a genius. It sounded amazing. I'm such a bone head for not writing down the settings...because a week later I went back, and everything had been changed around, and it sounded nothing like the week before.

So I guess what I'm saying is, I have the potential to get a great distortion...even with what I have now. It can't hurt to experiment with some OD or distortion (or 2 in 1 pedals). Nothing is going to break my bank. Hell..if I really get fed up, I could always go with a pedal multi-effects board. But I really am pretty happy with what i have now...it's like I'm on the tip of nailing it. I'm just thinking that a good distortion pedal...something really high end...could get me to that place.

Thanks again for the comments...please keep them coming...I'm enjoying what you're all writing. And continue to recommend pedals. I want the perfect pedal...and money really isn't too much of an object...at least when you're talking about pedals that run in the 100-200 dollar range. Hell...if someone could promise me I'd get the exact sound I'm looking for, I'd pay 1000 for a pedal. But I guess that's the whole trick, isn't it.

[Spivonious]

In my experience, overdrive means low/vintage gain, distortion means high gain. It's like an old Fender Twin has overdrive, but a Krank Revolution has distortion.

As far as pedals go, I don't like them. If my amp doesn't give me any sounds I like, I sell it and get another one that does. If you liked the Spider Valve in the store, it's possible that it just doesn't play well with your Mesa cab. Try a different speaker.

[bluesymetal]

^ I agree, I've never been much on distortion pedals and prefer an amps own drive. However I do use od's and clean boosts for solos or for a really thrashy song.

Again to the OP, try messing around a lot with the spider, I'm sure you can get it close to what you heard in the store. As a last option you can always throw a nice EQ pedal (MXR 6 or 10 band is awesome) in the loop in your amp and really take control over the tone by adjusting each frequencey.

EDIT: Just saw you already have an EQ, do you have it in the loop or in front of the amp?

[veniculum]

EDIT: Just saw you already have an EQ, do you have it in the loop or in front of the amp?

Here's how lame I am dude....I don't even know what that means. Man...I know guitars...but amps and effects...it was amazing I ever was able to play in any bands...I dig the line 6...and I really do think with enough tweaking, I could get it just right. It's the patience part that kills me.

Anyway...if you can tell me what you mean by that, I'll be happy to answer...

I'll just say this....I have my guitar going to a compressor sustainer, then to the EQ, then to a phase 90 (which is switched off most of the time, then to a 'Decimator' noise gate pedal (which is awesome...without it, I'd be squealing like a pig)...and then to the input of the amp.

Thanks man

[bluesymetal]

Here's how lame I am dude....I don't even know what that means. Man...I know guitars...but amps and effects...it was amazing I ever was able to play in any bands...I dig the line 6...and I really do think with enough tweaking, I could get it just right. It's the patience part that kills me.

Anyway...if you can tell me what you mean by that, I'll be happy to answer...

I'll just say this....I have my guitar going to a compressor sustainer, then to the EQ, then to a phase 90 (which is switched off most of the time, then to a 'Decimator' noise gate pedal (which is awesome...without it, I'd be squealing like a pig)...and then to the input of the amp.

Thanks man

Thats cool dude, there are a essentially two ways to use an EQ pedal, in front of the amp and in the loop. Your running it in front of the amp and by doing that you are shaping the sound of your guitar more so then the sound of your amp. Your effects loop lies in between the pre amp and the power amp so by placing the EQ in there you will get a DRASTIC change in your tone when shifting the sliders thats due to shaping the actual signal coming from the preamp into the power amp. Look on the back of your amp there should be a send and a return. Run a cable from the send to the input of your eq and then another cable from the output to the return. Try that and see how you like it.

[Racerx2k]

Well, from what you said, you have it in front of your amp. Your amp may have an effects loop. you will get greater tonal flexibility if you put the eq in the effects loop, instead of running it between your amp and guitar, like you are, now. Make sense?

[Racerx2k]

Hehe! Bluesy beat me to it.

[veniculum]

Thanks so much guys...I'll check it out and let you know. This makes total sense now...but I gotta be honest...I never would've thought to look behind the amp
Very helpful...much appreciated.

[Chief_CrazyTalk]

The Metal Zone works for me...in front of the amp. Very flexible.

[warlok]

Maybe I should have been asking this question.. instead of answering. If I learn nothing else today, I'm already happy. Sorry for leading astray-ish.