Software amps or normal SS or Tube amps Live

[jgcable]

I gotta ask all you AXE FX maniacs.
From what I have heard its a great system. I won't deny it. I never heard one live but the computer clips sound good.
So.. you spend a good part of your recent life programming, upgrading, updating and setting up all your patches. You go to the gig and for some reason or another your AXE FX craps out. What do you do???
With a traditional guitar amp you could always bring along a spare (most gigging bands bring a spare guitar amp head with them, we bring a 5150II).
What do you do when your AXE FX system with the powered monitors craps out? Do you run out the back door or do you call The Geek Squad or Nerds to Go? Seriously, what do you do?

[Hellbat]

I would imagine you do the same thing you'd do with a tube head. You fire up the backup system, whatever it may be and use that. I've never actually heard of an axe-fx failing before but touring pros that are using them are typically running 2 in their rack for the 'just in case' scenario. (Chris Broderick has a pair in his rig, the 2nd is purely backup in case the primary fails.)

The fact that it is computer hardware/software makes no difference to how you would deal with a failure over a tube head other than the fact that with a tube hit you can do advanced troubleshooting like "Check for glow", "tap the tubes", or "swap the tubes". The real beauty of something like the axe-fx if you are a gigging musician and have a redundant one is if one fails and you switch to the backup, it will sound IDENTICAL, versus tube amps which through companent variances can often sound quite different.

[jgcable]

I would imagine you do the same thing you'd do with a tube head. You fire up the backup system, whatever it may be and use that. I've never actually heard of an axe-fx failing before but touring pros that are using them are typically running 2 in their rack for the 'just in case' scenario. (Chris Broderick has a pair in his rig, the 2nd is purely backup in case the primary fails.)

The fact that it is computer hardware/software makes no difference to how you would deal with a failure over a tube head other than the fact that with a tube hit you can do advanced troubleshooting like "Check for glow", "tap the tubes", or "swap the tubes". The real beauty of something like the axe-fx if you are a gigging musician and have a redundant one is if one fails and you switch to the backup, it will sound IDENTICAL, versus tube amps which through companent variances can often sound quite different.

So.. your answer is that you bring 2 identical AXE FX rigs to the gig?? No wonder I will never see one local live. You are talking about 5K+ worth or gear right?? What gigging musician who isn't a touring pro has that kind of cash?
My entire live rig including the back up 5150II head is less than $1500.00 total.
I would think that you Axe FX junkies would have something like an XT Live or a GT8 as a back up.

[VitaminG]

a 5150 is an expensive amp here, so I'm not about to buy one just to carry around to shows and not use. But just like if your big expensive tube amp dies and you have to rely on a budget backup to get by, why wouldn't AxeFX users do the same? AxeFX for your primary, MetalZone into the PA for your fallback

[Hellbat]

Hey, if you can't afford it, you can't afford it. I know I couldn't. I can't even afford to buy one right now. It's what I'm saving for but I'm shitty at saving so it may not be until next year before I can get one. But if I was gigging professionally and absolutely loved the axe-fx I'd probably use my combo as an emergency backup until I could afford a second axe. I would have some awesome power conditioning and protection in front of the axe-fx though to keep it safe because a power event is really the only thing that threatens its reliability. Electronically the thing is heavily over engineered for sound quality and reliability so really I'd feel pretty confident rolling with only one.

But I'm a bedroom player. For me it's really a moot point because if my one went down I have a tube combo, 3 different headphone amps, and a line-6 computer interface to keep me going.

And like VG, you couldn't get two 5150 heads and a 4x12 for less than 2500 or so and that would be one head used probably.

Unfortunately you don't see too many Axe-fx ultras on the used market because nobody seems to want to give them up and they hold their value in the used market because they are rare to see.

[Newc]

Speaking somewhat from this very experience, I faced that scenario. I used to run my Digitech GSP21 Legend into the power section of a Peavey Bandit 112 combo. Some years back we were at a gig at during a song, my guitar craps out. I start with the obvious - knobs on the guitar, pickup selector, cable, on down the chain to my volume pedal, then my wah, then to the rack, then the amp. It'd cut in and out.

Not wanting to hold up the show, I unplugged my guitar's cable from the volume pedal and stuck it in the front of the Peavey, pulled the footswitch out of the cabinet, and continued on.

Didn't have all the sounds I wanted for the rest of the night, and not exactly the primary sound I wanted (the PV simply couldn't do it - not enough EQ), and I had to suffer with Peavey's idea of distortion, but we finished the gig. When I got home I took everything one at a time, and found it was the volume pedal. There was a loose wire in it.

Had another experience where my wireless started to crap out (new battery and all). Pulled the plug out of the receiver and stuck it in the guitar to finish the night.

However if you're using a rack with only a standalone poweramp, and you don't have at least a more affordable alternative to an Axe-FX, you're screwing yourself. Being a gearwhore, I've always got a ton of backup. If my ADA MP-1 craps out now, I've still got:
-Digitech GSP21 Legend x 2
-Digitech GSP1101
-Digitech 2101 A
-Line6 AM-4 amp modeler pedal
-Fender RocPro1000 head (which will also be my poweramp for the rack in a live setting)

If the amp craps, a 50 foot cable to the PA from the rack will do me just fine.
In fact, I'd have that set up beforehand just in case.

[jgcable]

I just wanted to know what all the hoards or Axe FX live players are using for a backup amp.
What I am trying to get at is this... You KNOW I always have an underlying theme....lol..

I think that there are 2 types of Axe FX players. The majority of them are bedroom players.
The ones that do play live have the cash to have 2 in their rack. Those guys are big buck signed pro's. Except for a few live single guitar pro clips I have yet to see a clip of a live 2 guitar metal band using this rig.
So.. to cut to the chase.. this is what I really think (not ever hearing one or seeing one live)
A good tube amp would shit all over the Axe FX. I saw a band a few years ago and one of the guitarists had a Triple Rectifier and 3 full stacks of Marshall cabs. He was playing at an extremely loud stage level. They also had a killer PA. It was outdoors at Daytona Bike Week.
I have had many many modeling amps and I don't care what anybody says.. there is no software modeling rig that could top that sound. It literally went right through your body. It was awesome. Now.. where is my Vetta 2!!

[Dreamland_Rebel]

if you see any clips from the Megadeth R.I.P. 25th Av. tour, you're hearing 2 guitar players with Axe Fx running into Marshall tube Poweramps into the DM cabinets. it sounded great!

that being said... i use a DSL100 with an analog pedal board. if that fails, i always carry a crate powerbloc and XTL to every gig. if just the head blows during a gig i can finish the gig with the powerbloc and my analog pedals alone.

[brandoz28]

if you really wanted to use an AxeFX in a rack and wanted a cheap back up, you could get an old ADA MP-1 for a cheap backup

[MOSHWITZ]

So.. to cut to the chase.. this is what I really think (not ever hearing one or seeing one live)
A good tube amp would shit all over the Axe FX.
I have had many many modeling amps and I don't care what anybody says.. there is no software modeling rig that could top that sound. It literally went right through your body. It was awesome. Now.. where is my Vetta 2!!

Sorry bro,,that is where you are just dead fuckin wrong. Especially as you have never played or heard one,,, and are basing your assumptions/opinion on outdated tech. that is NOWHERE in the same league as this piece of gear.

Just 3 weeks ago I did a rather large jam, brought my Axe-fx Ultra+ Carvin DCM1000 pwr amp, 2Mesa Recto cabs,+ 2 Carvin cabs(78 & 82) and the other guitarist there had A Mesa Dual rec. with 2 mesa trad. cabs and a Mesa triple rec with 2 mesa recto cabs. and I'll be damned if my rig didn't just stomp the shit out of his 2 mesa's,, tone, clarity, articulation, and noise-wise not to mention I can get the same chest thump out of my rig with no tubes,,(and with no mud from from my cabs as I also have the ability to fine tune the sound to any cabs I'm using with a speaker resonance parameter on the advanced Amp page.)


After about 4 songs we took a break, and I was explaining the axe to him while he noodled and smiled and shook his head in disbelief,,,then I did him one better,, I copied my amp chain to another row in the axe,(ts808,+ filter block,+ Bogner Uber sim, + Special Cab IR that is flat response so I could still use the AIR and Mic sim + Para EQ ), and ran his guitar into input 2 then into the copied chain then out, output 2, and we both jammed out the rest of night through my rig and he never turned his shit back on. even the rest of the band was like
HELL YEAH

And before I hear "well,,maybe he just didn't have it dialed in right or it would have....".

...this cat's old man was/is a session player up in Nashville, he has basically grown up in the studios there. He knows great tone,, I've seen his home studio,, the guy has more invested in tube heads than I make in a years time,, and he said he was blown away at how great the Axe sounded and felt, and would be for sure buying one in the very near future.

Oh,,and don't get me wrong,, his mesa's sounded great, most people would be just happy as hell with the sound he had,,,,mine was just...... Better.

But you have not had this one...only tech. that never quite measured up to the almighty tube in the first place, and the reason it fell by the wayside and never advanced,,only repackaged for mass general consumption.


I didn't get to hear "THAT" sound,, as I wasn't there at your show,,,but there is NO DOUBT that it could be dialed up if one were to take the time,,

I don't know where yours is but I ditched mine for the same reasons you bag on the Axe,, (Although you haven't ever played/heard one),,, The Vetta II couldn't come close to hanging with my Engl Savage 120,,Hands down, NO contest. so out the door it went. I've had my Axe for right at 1 year and 1 month,, and in this time I have learned the my way around this unit to tweak out of it what I want for the most part( hell I'm still discovering cool stuff)
Within the last month I got rid of my Engl as I have got the axe tweaked close enough that I just didn't need the Engl any more, and could get it with none of the drawbacks to having the head( hiss, heat, weight) so out the door it went.....And I couldn't be happier

I'll tell you John, I agree with you 110% on allot of the points you make about other modeling gear Vrs tube gear, and can hear what you are hearing with them and are totally correct,,,,,,its just not like that with the Axe,,NONE of the shortcomings apply,,,,,
Welcome to the future brother.....flush please
MOSHON
DAVE

[jgcable]

Sorry bro,,that is where you are just dead fuckin wrong. Especially as you have never played or heard one,,, and are basing your assumptions/opinion on outdated tech. that is NOWHERE in the same league as this piece of gear.

Just 3 weeks ago I did a rather large jam, brought my Axe-fx Ultra+ Carvin DCM1000 pwr amp, 2Mesa Recto cabs,+ 2 Carvin cabs(78 & 82) and the other guitarist there had A Mesa Dual rec. with 2 mesa trad. cabs and a Mesa triple rec with 2 mesa recto cabs. and I'll be damned if my rig didn't just stomp the shit out of his 2 mesa's,, tone, clarity, articulation, and noise-wise not to mention I can get the same chest thump out of my rig with no tubes,,(and with no mud from from my cabs as I also have the ability to fine tune the sound to any cabs I'm using with a speaker resonance parameter on the advanced Amp page.)


After about 4 songs we took a break, and I was explaining the axe to him while he noodled and smiled and shook his head in disbelief,,,then I did him one better,, I copied my amp chain to another row in the axe,(ts808,+ filter block,+ Bogner Uber sim, + Special Cab IR that is flat response so I could still use the AIR and Mic sim + Para EQ ), and ran his guitar into input 2 then into the copied chain then out, output 2, and we both jammed out the rest of night through my rig and he never turned his shit back on. even the rest of the band was like
HELL YEAH

And before I hear "well,,maybe he just didn't have it dialed in right or it would have....".

...this cat's old man was/is a session player up in Nashville, he has basically grown up in the studios there. He knows great tone,, I've seen his home studio,, the guy has more invested in tube heads than I make in a years time,, and he said he was blown away at how great the Axe sounded and felt, and would be for sure buying one in the very near future.

Oh,,and don't get me wrong,, his mesa's sounded great, most people would be just happy as hell with the sound he had,,,,mine was just...... Better.

But you have not had this one...only tech. that never quite measured up to the almighty tube in the first place, and the reason it fell by the wayside and never advanced,,only repackaged for mass general consumption.


I didn't get to hear "THAT" sound,, as I wasn't there at your show,,,but there is NO DOUBT that it could be dialed up if one were to take the time,,

I don't know where yours is but I ditched mine for the same reasons you bag on the Axe,, (Although you haven't ever played/heard one),,, The Vetta II couldn't come close to hanging with my Engl Savage 120,,Hands down, NO contest. so out the door it went. I've had my Axe for right at 1 year and 1 month,, and in this time I have learned the my way around this unit to tweak out of it what I want for the most part( hell I'm still discovering cool stuff)
Within the last month I got rid of my Engl as I have got the axe tweaked close enough that I just didn't need the Engl any more, and could get it with none of the drawbacks to having the head( hiss, heat, weight) so out the door it went.....And I couldn't be happier

I'll tell you John, I agree with you 110% on allot of the points you make about other modeling gear Vrs tube gear, and can hear what you are hearing with them and are totally correct,,,,,,its just not like that with the Axe,,NONE of the shortcomings apply,,,,,
Welcome to the future brother.....flush please
MOSHON
DAVE

I value your response Dave. I can't wait to hear one live. So far, since they came out.. no luck. Its not like my band doesn't gig. We play all the time with many bands. I have yet to see or hear one. 99% of the bands we play with use traditional tube amp heads and cabinets.
If you say your rig shit on a Triple Rec... I believe you.
It sucks basing my opinion on a rig I have never heard live but I have nothing but the countless threads of people plugging their Axe FX rigs into Protools and hitting the record button.
I can't tell you how many times I have argued the points of a live amp sound with a person who never played anywhere but their bedroom. Its frustrating.
I once had a long conversation about some mods to one of my cars on another forum. This guy knew an incredible amount of technical jargon but many of his "on the road" comments were way off base. Come to find out he is a student who doesn't even have a car yet but would like to get one when he gets his drivers license!!

[Rupe]

I have Mosh's back on this one...and addressed this same issue directly to you in the other thread:

Originally Posted by jgcable
Curious.. are you in a one guitar band or 2?? If there is another guitar player, what type of amp do they use??



2 guitars...the other guy plays through a complicated rig with a THD Bi-Valve 30 slaved to run a W/D setup powered by a Peavey 50/50 power amp through a stereo Marshall 4x12.

Our tones meshed way better than I ever thought they would...non of the typical "modeller gets buried by tube amp" issues. If anything, my rig hits even harder (although the ablity to cut through a mix has A LOT to do with tone settings...I have no doubt somebody who doesn't understand the dynamics of live tone could set the Axe up to sound like sh#t and get buried). When he began to crank things up (which he always does as a gig progresses) I simply turn up to match his stage volume (a 400w powered FRFR monitor handles that task nicely).

FWIW, he's now looking into the Axe himself.


So you've already had that concern addressed by a gigging musician yet you circle back to the same questions???

As for backup, I bring a POD...hope I never have to use it

Have a sip of the Kool-Aid John, its gooooooood

[Matt_B]

JG, the Axe-FX is unlike any other modeler I've ever played and at one point or another I've tried them all and owned a few of them. I've also owned tube amps and tube preamps. I was a die-hard tube fan for years but I changed my tune when I tried the Axe-FX.

If you have never played through one yourself or even heard one live, I can understand the source of your doubts but to make empirical statements like "there is no software modeling rig that could top that sound. (re: all tube head through a stack)" is very close minded, IMHO.

Every once in a while, a piece of gear comes along that creates a paradigm shift and in the case of modelers, many folks consider the Axe-FX to be just that. Bear in mind that the Axe-FX was not created by some soulless corporation that was more concerned about making a few extra pennies on every unit. The Axe-FX was, and still is, a labor of love for its creator. How it was created and continues to evolve is part of what separates it from other modelers.

[Trem]

You will kick yourself for not buying one sooner, or you will hate it, tho most would say i seriously doubt it.

If your still running that rm100? your sitting on a house of cards anyway, the word FAIL was invented for that amp.

[jgcable]

50 gigs at least so far and not even a hiccup. I guess I must be sitting on a really well built house of cards.