Modeling rigs versus traditional SS or tube amps?? Oh no!!!

[jgcable]

From my experience owning modeling amps and regular tube amps I have to ask the following 2 questions. This is not a debate over which is better. They are both great.
#1. Do you spend more time tweaking your modeling rig (Axe FX for example) than actually practicing?
I will cast the first vote.
I spend more time tweaking my POD X3 and Boss GT8 than I do actually practicing. When I am playing my standard Randall RM100 or my 5150II or my V3 I spend more time practicing.

#2. How many useable presets do you have saved into your modeling rig after the countless hours of tweaking compared to a traditional SS or tube amp that may have 2 or 3 channels?

I will cast the first vote on this one too. My Randall has 3 channels. I use 2 of them. A clean and a gain channel. My modeling rigs have hundreds of channels. I use 3 of them. A clean, a crunch and a lead preset. I spend countless hours dialing in these 3 channels and to tell you the truth, they are VERY similar to my traditional tube amps and all I had to do to get the tone on my tube amps was base setting.. about 10 minutes of tweaking.

I dig all the possibilities and options on my modeling amps but I rarely use them for more than 5 minutes. Usually I will find something crazy and say to myself... "wow, that sounds incredible!". After about 5 minutes of playing on that incredible crazy tone I switch back to my normal tone which is basically the same thing as my normal tube amps.

So... what do you guys that own both regular and modeling rigs think?

[DonP]

I own a VT15, a POD 2.0 and a POD XT that I used to use when I was at my apartment. I never spent any time tweaking. I just found a usable tone and played. One of my favorites was tone 1A on the POD 2.0.

Now that I don't live on the road any more, I play my DSL100 1/2 stack that I've had since 1998 and I'm happy. I don't spend any time dialing that in either. Everything is spun to 10.

I also have a Laney AOR 50 for th JCM800 tones. Once again everything dialed to 10.

Plug and play. I have so little time to play I just want to plug in and play.

Back before kids and wife I used to build amps like Cyg. Nowadays, family consumes so much time, and I make enough money that I can just go out and buy anything I want instead of having to make it. Back then I'd spend more time tweaking rather than playing.

But today, life is too short. I am very happy with my tone. You might find that hard to believe with everything just spun to 10, but it sounds great to me. Occationally I'll play some old Metallica and kill the mids, but that's rare.

Maybe the way I dial in suits the music I play? Mostly Marshall oriented 80s rock and metal, from AC/DC to Maiden and Priest. I like trash too, but I'm just happy as a clam playing Black Sabbath to Queensryche.

I like crunchier newer stuff, but it's not the stuff I'd play. At least not yet. So no need for a 5150, Uber, or any of that stuff.

[Grim]

I own a VT15, a POD 2.0 and a POD XT that I used to use when I was at my apartment. I never spent any time tweaking. I just found a usable tone and played. One of my favorites was tone 1A on the POD 2.0.

Now that I don't live on the road any more, I play my DSL100 1/2 stack that I've had since 1998 and I'm happy. I don't spend any time dialing that in either. Everything is spun to 10.

I also have a Laney AOR 50 for th JCM800 tones. Once again everything dialed to 10.

Plug and play. I have so little time to play I just want to plug in and play.

Back before kids and wife I used to build amps like Cyg. Nowadays, family consumes so much time, and I make enough money that I can just go out and buy anything I want instead of having to make it. Back then I'd spend more time tweaking rather than playing.

But today, life is too short. I am very happy with my tone. You might find that hard to believe with everything just spun to 10, but it sounds great to me. Occationally I'll play some old Metallica and kill the mids, but that's rare.

Maybe the way I dial in suits the music I play? Mostly Marshall oriented 80s rock and metal, from AC/DC to Maiden and Priest. I like trash too, but I'm just happy as a clam playing Black Sabbath to Queensryche.

I like crunchier newer stuff, but it's not the stuff I'd play. At least not yet. So no need for a 5150, Uber, or any of that stuff.

I think you'll find that the 6505 (and even more so the 6534) is great for 80s stuff and modern stuff. The 6534 replaces the 6L6 tubes that are standard in the 6505 for EL34s. Might be worth checking out. Plus, you can't beat the price on the peaveys.

[chrisolson]

I'm a modeler supporter. I've tried to fall in love with tubes. They're just not for me. With an 11R & Axe-Fx rig, I have everything under the sun at my fingertips, and couldn't be happier.

I love them for the times I get bored and want to find "something else", and I love them for the "go to" sounds I get as well. They're come a long way since the days of the original Flextone & Pod. No matter what I've tried since, I always come back, and am always happier - or at least the honeymoon is a little longer.

[jgcable]

I'm a modeler supporter. I've tried to fall in love with tubes. They're just not for me. With an 11R & Axe-Fx rig, I have everything under the sun at my fingertips, and couldn't be happier.

I love them for the times I get bored and want to find "something else", and I love them for the "go to" sounds I get as well. They're come a long way since the days of the original Flextone & Pod. No matter what I've tried since, I always come back, and am always happier - or at least the honeymoon is a little longer.

Chris... answer the damn questions! lol...

[jgcable]

I think you'll find that the 6505 (and even more so the 6534) is great for 80s stuff and modern stuff. The 6534 replaces the 6L6 tubes that are standard in the 6505 for EL34s. Might be worth checking out. Plus, you can't beat the price on the peaveys.

This response has absolutely nothing to do with my topic. Thanks. The surf must be up in Cali!

[Rich#6]

This response has absolutely nothing to do with my topic. Thanks. The surf must be up in Cali!

This time CA means Canada, don't the surf much up there.
I hated my modeling amp. 66 presets and only liked 2 and there weren't that great. You can't even run a pedal without it sounding processed because everything is already thru the preamp (it's a vox vt50 which the one tube is in the power and preamp)

[loose Cannon]

Modelling amps are good for experimenting having fun and practicing in the bedroom but for gigging nothing goes past a good tube amp. I have a Line 6 spider modeller but i would never gig or record with it, its just a cool amp to mess around on.I mean if your only using a fraction of the effects on a modelling amp then why not just get a few pedals running behind your tube amp???

Would you prefer the digitially processed sounds from a modeller over a organic analog sound from a tube amp?

[petez0r]

I dont own a modeling amp yet, but i plan on acquiring one soon. As for tweaking, i have 3 tube amps... a Roadster, a MarkV and an EVHIII, and and im always touching the knobs, especially with the roadster, the other 2 ive calmed down a bit with lately, but on any given day i might hate the sound coming out of the speakers so then its find my "new" tone time which invariably comes back to oh man i loved the tone last month....off to find my old tone. I dont think it matters much which kind of amp you own, you will always tweak and sometimes more than you play, it just depends on the day.

[Hellbat]

I spend more time practicing with the modeler. The amp needs to sit on standby for a couple of minutes before I fire it up. With my new Eleven Rack I've basically set up a preset or two for each modeled amp. They were fast and very easy to dial in. Choosing the microphone model and placement literally took the longest.

Sometimes I will chase a tone on it for a bit whenever I am in to trying to play differently, such as chimey dotted 8th U2 type stuff. The beauty of the way modelers are working now is you can often download a starting point for a song and then go from there.

When I play with my tube amp I can spend 20 minutes just fucking with my mxr 10 band eq hehe.

As far as presets, on my line 6 toneport I use about 4. On the Eleven rack it would currently be about seven. Three different high gain tones, two crunches, and two cleans. I imagine I will eventually hit about fifteen presets on it. I could cut that down but I'm as likely to switch a whole preset as to switch a virtual effect pedal on or off.

[6string40]

JG, your post is essentially my EXACT summation. They are their own animals, both great for what they are/do. But, with more options, more channels and more buttons comes more things to play with and not actually play your guitar. I practice/play more when I use my tube amp. I tweaked more when I had modeling amps. That being said, I also tweaked a lot more when I had an all tube rack set up as well (still a lot of options with an MP-1). As far as question #2, I couldn't have said that any better either. I do like having a 3 channel tube amp...I need a good clean and a good crunch, but from time to time I like to have some over-the-top as well. When using modelers, I did have probably 4-5 quality settings, but only 3 of them were probably used extensively.

[chrisolson]

Chris... answer the damn questions! lol...

1. Initially, YES, I tweak more than I play. But I can do that with "real amps" too, and when we're talking tubes, it varies from day to day depending on what the glowing bottles decide to do. Since I'm a hack, I just play -- I don't "practice" per se. I should take some lessons... But anyway, once I have my presets there, I'm done. I don't tweak unless I NEED something different.

2. I set up about 5-10 patches. It's funny - regardless of the modeler I have I usually set up the following:

*Soldano
*JCM 800
*Boosted Plexi (Brown sound of some kind)
*Mesa Mark Series
*Sometimes a Recto, but just for when I get bored
*Clean of some kind

Now that I have my Axe, add the Marsha HBE and the Bogner Shiva to the mix. I usually add a little delay, and have some chorus and reverb on tap if I want it. I don't vary my setup too much. But now when I get craving for other stuff, the 11R or Axe will certainly keep me busy.

[lhrocker]

Bravo John...

I have both modeling and tube amps, love both and each have their specific purposes. But to answer your questions, I feel that the tube amps are much more plug and play for me. I'm at the stage where I don't really practice unless I have a gig and to me practicing means learning songs. For that, I just plug into one of my tube amps and learn. So I can get by with a clean, crunch and lead tone.

This is also how I work with a modeller as well. I always start with my 3 main tones, which come pretty easily. Then what I do is mod the tones w/FX, which is what takes time.

If I am looking for a specific tone or tweaking, then I'm not really practicing. Hmmm, I wonder if that answers the questions?

[jgcable]

Bravo John...

I have both modeling and tube amps, love both and each have their specific purposes. But to answer your questions, I feel that the tube amps are much more plug and play for me. I'm at the stage where I don't really practice unless I have a gig and to me practicing means learning songs. For that, I just plug into one of my tube amps and learn. So I can get by with a clean, crunch and lead tone.

This is also how I work with a modeller as well. I always start with my 3 main tones, which come pretty easily. Then what I do is mod the tones w/FX, which is what takes time.

If I am looking for a specific tone or tweaking, then I'm not really practicing. Hmmm, I wonder if that answers the questions?

Of course Pete... the voice of reason. You and Chris both answered the questions. I just need to come up with a prize!

[nor]

I love the convenience and ease-of-recording associated with modelers. I've been GASing for an Axe-Fx/Bose array rig, but...

...I hate programming the damn things. My Stiletto and MkIII with a simple pedalboard are really easy to be musical with.