Shure SM57 vs. ? - Recording Guru's Opinions

[DRM]

I'm seriously looking into setting up a small recording studio and I'd like to hear the opinions of our more experienced recording guys on which mic's they prefer for close mic'ing cabs. I know the SM57 is pretty much the standard, but I'm also looking into the e609/e906 as well as a few other dynamic mic's.

So far, I'm thinking about running an SM57 on the left speaker and an e609 on the right. However, I've heard that the SM57 colors the tone of the amp and for those of you in the know who have a preferred mic and setup (i.e. mic position relative to the speaker/cab/in the room, etc.) could you say so and why? Condensers, dynamics...whatevski.

Any and all input is greatly appreciated. Thanks!
-Dave

[markD]

i actually use a variety of mics for guitar cabs in my studio. i use the sennheiser e609, MD421, the shure SM58, beta 58 and an audix snare drum mic - the A5 i think. i don't use the SM57 because i do not like the way it sounds. my current favorite recording mic set-up is:

a rivera 2x10 cab, with the SM58 pointed between the "er" on the rivera logo, about 1/2" back from the grille. i then setup a second mic, a RODE NT-1A about 3 feet back and around ear level. i record 4 tracks that way, a 58/NT1 combo for the left and a 58/NT1 combo for the right.

sounds very nice. i can elaborate more later if you want.

[DRM]

How would you say the sound of the e609 compares to the 58? I hadn't even considered running that one. I'll definitely look into it.

[markD]

hmmm, good question...the e609 sounds "closer" when in the same position as the 58. to define "closer" i think in terms of the mic's ability to pickup a bit of the room around it. the e609 is a flat front mic, so the capsule is able to get right up on the grille. this creates a "closer" sound without natural room ambience. the 58 allows some of the room in, even if it is right on the grille. that little bit of room can color the sound and give it "air" that i appreciate in my sound.

as far as EQ similarities, i don't notice that big of a difference. dynamic mics are dynamic mics. the only one i really hate is the SM57. the e609 has a frequency response of 40-18000K - it is going to have more 'air' with the upper frequencies. the SM58 has a response of 50-15000K - it is going to be smoother with the upper frequencies because it will roll them off sooner.

a big part of it is going to be how you want your guitar tone. i like a dark, thick tone. i also like my recorded sound to be a even as possible across the frequency range. i record with 10" speakers, not 12" speakers. this makes a difference on how the mic responds. the best thing to do is find one that responds as close to YOUR ear as possible. that is why i put the RODE up at ear level. i don't know about you, but i rarely sit with my ear shoved next to a guitar cabinet!!! but the SM58 get's the closeness and the NT-1 gets the sound that is in the air, so it becomes a bit more realistic.

when i use the e609, i tend to use it to record "vintage" fender amp sounds (like my tremolux buried in spring reverb) or if i am doing a session with a metal band and the guitarist wants a really sterile scooped sound. it is nice for that. the SM58 is too warm. it excels at rock sounds or anything where you want your guitar to sound balanced like the ear hears it.

of course, none of what i am saying matters if you don't use good micing technique.

[Hellbat]

Rode mics rule. I have an M3 and it is a great all around mic...

http://www.rodemicrophones.com/microphone.php?product=M3

[DRM]

Thanks for the advice, Mark. I'll try to check out both the 609 and the 58 before making a purchase and see which one works for me. I appreciate your help.

Hellbat, I'll definitely look into Rode mic's. Thanks for that as well.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

If you like Metallica check out the Shure SM7B.
If you like Megadeth check out the Royer 121 Ribbon mic.

also the AKG C414 and the Sennhieser MD421 are a very popular studio mic as well.

One trick is to mix a 57 with one of those 4 mics for many bands classic studio sounds.

[Hellbat]

The Royer 121 is my go-to mic model in my Digi 11Rack. It seems to add the least coloration to the cab models. How this translates to the real world versus the virtual world, I don't know. I do know I avoid the SM57 model like the plague however.

[DRM]

UPDATE:

Picked up an SM57 and an e609 last night in addition to a mixer. I'm still planning on picking up a proper mic preamp, but for now, this will work as I learn the basics of mic placement and post-EQ/compression, etc. So far, I found a spot on the right speaker where the e609 sounds great. I'm still working the SM57, but with a 5-day weekend starting tomorrow I'll have a long break to play with them both and get some good clips of my Jet City posted up. (finally)

Pic for reference:



-Dave

[warlok]

How much talent do you get out of that pedal? Might pick one of those up!! lol

[Endrik]

... I learn the basics of .... /compression....

That's an easy one, for distorted rock guitar 99% of the time the "off" setting works the best

[Twitch]

I dont know what they used in the last studio we were in, but between the mystery mics used(Senheiser somthing or others) and the guys inability to mix, were pretty much of the opinion to scrap everything that was done there and go somewhere else. I bring this up because had he used the SM57s he had laying around, we could have had another studio mix the tracks, but the guitars sound so awful. The drums sound hollow and lifeless too.

[Endrik]

Changing the mic doesn't make the sound better if the engineer is a hack, there's people out there who get horrible drum sounds with U87's. Why let someone who gets paid for his service to screw up everything in the first place though?

[jackson1]

Any and all input is greatly appreciated.

Any advise goes, then. Cool. Because it very much depends on what sound you are after. What sound you heard on an album and want to have. We all have references. I bet you have some too. Without these references, any help could possibly push you in the wrong direction.

Let me think up a scenario. Just to explain the above. Let's focus on rythm guitar sound. You want fat, saturated, hard rock or metal guitar sound. You want it to be massive. Dry. Have percussion-like punch. In a final mix, the guitar should have a lot to say and fill every void, so to speak. Every bass players nightmare, but that's how it is

Enter DRM. Yeah, what mic will get me there? Well, a lot of mics will get you there. The mic in this case is a relatively small factor, due to the recording techniques needed.

So we have to prioritize to reach the goal. There are a lot of factors involved and focusing on the wrong factors (mics) in the job at hand, will make you ineffective or you may never reach your goal.

In this scenario, I would prioritize like this:

1. Recording technique using two mics (mics placement, eliminating phase problems).
2. Overdubs. Every rythm guitar should be quad tracked. We want massive, remember? L-R x 2 = 4.
3. Your ability to play tight. I said tight.
4. Mixing (eq, panning, level, etc.). Done afterwards, of course. Avoid doing stuff on the way in.
5. Holding back on the amount of distortion on each take. Hard part.
6. Choice of mics. Matched correctly, a lot of mic pairs will do the job.

So, mics came last, eh? If you can play and team up with a competent studio engineer, the two of you could make this sound happen using almost whatever mics are available. In other scenarios, mics might be prioritized 2nd or even first. That's my point.

I'm suggesting using two mics simultaneously for each take, because different characteristics is a good thing. They just need to be matched correctly. And don't underestimate phasing problems. Other parameters are part of the above, but not necessary to make a point (amps, speakers, guitar setup).

[jgcable]

we use 414, E609 and SM57's. We usually record guitar tracks with at least 2 mics. One on the grill, one about 2 feet away in the front and if its an open back cab we throw one in the back.