Anybody else just not that into amps?

[6string40]

^^

I said "the record" not Twitchy-poo

[jgcable]

Fuckin' cork sniffers.

Back when I did play in bands and played out - my rig was a 100 watt Peavy 2x12 solid state combo and a Boss distortion pedal. I was 17 and it rocked. Maybe I didn't know any better. Maybe it didn't matter.

Trust me.. you didn't know any better!

[jgcable]

I don't understand why people don't understand the point of the thread.

Again, no one is saying that THE AMPLIFIER is not important. There are many aspects of amplifiers, and as a guitarist I care about two things- reliability, and tone.

What is important to me is having the versatility to get the tones I want (whether it's "live and loud" or in the bedroom or in the studio) and that the amp works reliably and the sound is consistently good.

Grandturk IMO is talking about cork-sniffers, and I don't care whether it's amplifiers, fine wine, or guitars... Cork-sniffers are obnoxious, stupid people who make arguments like "Well I suppose if one's ear is not trained to hear such a small difference then it might not be as grating and glaringly obvious..."

So, while I'm interested in working on guitars, assembling them, etc. I'm not particularly interested in building an amplifier. Why? Well, I build guitars for fun, not because I think I need them to unlock some super-secret recipe for amazing tone. And, as far as plugging into something, I have a nice Boogie and it makes the tones I need and it has a 5-year warranty and it's designed to be road-worthy and that's good enough for me.

Although I have seen a picture of the internals, I don't really care what it looks like in there, I don't need to see what is in it, I need to hear what comes out of it, and I need to like it.

Bottom line I think what you guys are missing is many of us are saying we don't care about the name on the front or what is in it, we care about RESULTS - the process by which the results are produced is not really that interesting. To me, being overly concerned with that stuff is just a waste of time.

You mention RESULTS. Great word btw...
Do you know how you get great results from an amplifier?
1. Build quality and component quality is VERY important. Especially if you play live and the amp is going to be loaded and unloaded a few times a week.
If you don't know whats going on inside your amp you are really taking a chance.
Of course, if you don't play live and your amp never or rarely leaves your house it really doesn't matter. That is why modeling amps are so good for home use.
Here is something to consider.
There is a reason why pro's all use high end amplifiers. Build and component quality.
Most pro guitar players know everything about the amps they play out of. Many of them have had their hands involved in tweaking or modding them. Its a very important part of a guitar players ammo box. Most of the time you can tell the difference between a guitarist who knows about their amp and the ones who don't. The ones who do usually have much better tone live.
And to expand on that, if amp porn affends some players but guitar porn doesn't what about effects porn or instrument cable porn or pick porn or strap porn etc....
A player who knows nothing about his amp is the same thing as a person who doesn't know how to open the hood of their car. It doesn't matter until you want more performance or tone or if something breaks.

[jgcable]

Oh yea, I do understand the point of this thread. The OP's thread states "anybody else not that into amps"?
A gut shot of a really well made amp with really high end components is way more of a musical "turn on" to a player who plays live regularly.
All the great players love amp porn.

[warlok]

I love a great sounding tone but I'm not really into the amp internals from a "porn" perspective at all. But for a bedroom player like me (and trust me, I'm not even a good player..), it's really hard to justify all the money I spend on this stuff. So I try as much as I can to do my own fixes and/or mods. I'm really mechanical and like to tinker with stuff but electronics don't really do it for me. So it's more of a "as needed" thing. But once I "need" to fix something or really want to mod something, I take it as a challenge and go at it. And now that I have a RM100 on the way, I'm sure I'll be getting much more into electronics modding because having the modules modded is very expensive. Building/fixing/modding guitars really does do it for me. I love it.

[VitaminG]

If you don't know whats going on inside your amp you are really taking a chance.

Why? Isn't that why pro's use high end amplifiers? So that apart from the superior tone, they know that they can rely on the amp to get it done.

There is a reason why pro's all use high end amplifiers. Build and component quality.

Again, so they don't have to concern themselves with the minutiae of the inner workings of the amp. Guys who buy Ferraris don't worry about how to fix their gearboxes. It works beautifully or they pay someone to repair it for them.

The pro guys will tell their tech, or their amp guy, or the manufacturer "I want less mooosh and more grrrrrr" and the amp will be modified to taste. The pro guy's ears will tell him if the amp is delivering - if not, it gets tweaked some more until they are happy with it. Of course, some pro dudes want a reliable piece of kit that gives them a workable sound night in and night out - they don't give shit how the sound happens, only that it does and that if it doesn't, it can be fixed or replaced.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

You mention RESULTS. Great word btw...
Do you know how you get great results from an amplifier?
1. Build quality and component quality is VERY important. Especially if you play live and the amp is going to be loaded and unloaded a few times a week.
If you don't know whats going on inside your amp you are really taking a chance.

Your ears will tell you more about the tone than your eyes ever would, and I bought an amplifier that is hand made from a reputable manufacturer that is designed to be gigged and comes with a 5-year warranty. I've been playing tube amps for 20+ years, I know how they work, but looking at the insides of them doesn't get me hot. Amps aren't to look at, they're to make sound. :dunno:

But hey, if LISTENING to women talk gets you horny, then good for you. If LOOKING at cars is exciting for you, then great. I prefer to fuck and drive them, in that order, and the only thing that gets my blood pumping with respect to an amplifier is the TONE and FEEL when it's cranked up.

[lerxstcat]

I agree that a good percentage of tone is in your hands and not in the guitar or the amp BUT.... there is an exception to that. Its playing live and loud.
Amps change when they are cranked up. Especially tube amps. Usually.. the better the high gain tube amp.. the better it sounds the louder it is.
IMHO.... after playing live primarily for the last 32 years in a metal band, an amp is WAY more important to your live sound than your guitar is. For instance, cranked up live, a BC Rich Mockingbird doesn't sound that much different than a Strat with humbuckers. At home, yes.
At low volumes, yes. On a big stage through a full stack that is screaming, no.
There are subtle differences in humbuckers and guitar woods, body styles etc.. but when you are playing live and loud they are subtle differences. Switching amps on the other hand.. thats MAJOR.
So... to answer your thread directly I guess.
If you play live an amp is probably more important than the guitar in regards to tone.
If you play at home or in very small venues with small combo amps it doesn't matter that much.

You make good points as you always do, John. I am more into the guitars than the amps myself, although the amp does have to have a good clean and god high-gain sound for me.

Beyond that point I would much rather play than tweak, and that's where the guitar wins over amps. I don't want to be so used to a certain amp's sound that I can't plug into a somewhat generic amp, like at an open mic where you might just get to bring a processor, and play.

When you see guys get up in that environment and begin to vocally bitch about the gear instead of just STFU and play their guitar, it kind of comes off as an excuse for not being able to play - even if it's not. It's also dissing whoever is hosting that open mic, where you are very apt to be playing through budget equipment. And you can't drag your full stack into an open mic where it's 112 combos for guitar and a 115 or 210 combo for bass.

More and more, that's what it's coming to, more than full-blown rock clubs where you can crank a full stack or even half stack. Unless you are a national concert act, the venues for blasting a 100-watt stack to its sweet spot are drying up.

[Grandturk]

Hey - great thread.

When I was into watches, I noticed there was a contingent of watch-geek that needed to open up their watches to look at the mechanism. They would take pictures of them - and then talk about build quality and all that. And of course, they wanted to have a display back (a clear back so you could see into the watch) so they could look at the gears moving. I found this rather disturbing, as my own interest in watches was about how they looked on the outside, and not on the inside. Famously, they used to gang up on Rolex for not offering a watch with a display back.

I look at it this way - I don't know how a watch works, and me being able to see the internals of a watch will not tell me anything about it. Yes, there are degrees of craftsmanship, and you can tell how well the mechanism is decorated. And of course, you can draw the parallel of time spent to quality and quality to how well the watch will perform. But a novice can be confused.

With the car analogy, same thing. I'm not a professional driver, but I have racked up a fair amount of miles on my cars over the years. I know how an internal combustion engine works and given the right tools, am mechanically inclined enough that I could probably tear down an engine and re build it - maybe not the stuff with computers - but you get the idea. Now - did I even look under the hood of my new truck before I bought it? No. Because what was that even going to tell me? It's a big engine with a big piece of plastic on the top. The only thing I care about is whether it starts when I turn the key and whether the manufacturer has a history of producing engines that will run for miles and miles and miles without any major headaches.

Now, back to amps - I like good amps, I like expensive amps, and given space and resources - I wouldn't mind owning a few more than what i have. Hell - I know my 1979 Boogie Mk II is a good amp - it's been kicking ass for 31 years. But do I need to see the internals of another Fender tweed clone? Do I need to see a board with a bunch of components on them? These wires are twisted together and these wires aren't - blah blah blah. I think I'd even rather see a circuit board than those turret boards - those things look like tinker toys.

Nah - doesn't interest me. I'd rather hear it - well, I mean, I could see a Fender Tweed amp and know that it doesn't interest me.

[jgcable]

Why? Isn't that why pro's use high end amplifiers? So that apart from the superior tone, they know that they can rely on the amp to get it done.



Again, so they don't have to concern themselves with the minutiae of the inner workings of the amp. Guys who buy Ferraris don't worry about how to fix their gearboxes. It works beautifully or they pay someone to repair it for them.

The pro guys will tell their tech, or their amp guy, or the manufacturer "I want less mooosh and more grrrrrr" and the amp will be modified to taste. The pro guy's ears will tell him if the amp is delivering - if not, it gets tweaked some more until they are happy with it. Of course, some pro dudes want a reliable piece of kit that gives them a workable sound night in and night out - they don't give shit how the sound happens, only that it does and that if it doesn't, it can be fixed or replaced.

I agree with almost everything you are saying. My point is that it seems alot of members here think that their favorite pro players just buy or get endorsed buy a high end amp company and just plug in and play when in reality most of them know a ton about the amps they play out of. They do buy high end amps because of the reliability but they still know a ton about whats going on inside. Cases in point.. George Lynch, Malmsteen, Gilbert, Friedman, Satch, Vai, etc.......

[jgcable]

Your ears will tell you more about the tone than your eyes ever would, and I bought an amplifier that is hand made from a reputable manufacturer that is designed to be gigged and comes with a 5-year warranty. I've been playing tube amps for 20+ years, I know how they work, but looking at the insides of them doesn't get me hot. Amps aren't to look at, they're to make sound. :dunno:

But hey, if LISTENING to women talk gets you horny, then good for you. If LOOKING at cars is exciting for you, then great. I prefer to fuck and drive them, in that order, and the only thing that gets my blood pumping with respect to an amplifier is the TONE and FEEL when it's cranked up.

So.. for you... a paint job or the wheels on a car is way more "sexy" than whats under the hood?
Whatever blows your skirt up bro! lol......

[jgcable]

Hey - great thread.

When I was into watches, I noticed there was a contingent of watch-geek that needed to open up their watches to look at the mechanism. They would take pictures of them - and then talk about build quality and all that. And of course, they wanted to have a display back (a clear back so you could see into the watch) so they could look at the gears moving. I found this rather disturbing, as my own interest in watches was about how they looked on the outside, and not on the inside. Famously, they used to gang up on Rolex for not offering a watch with a display back.

I look at it this way - I don't know how a watch works, and me being able to see the internals of a watch will not tell me anything about it. Yes, there are degrees of craftsmanship, and you can tell how well the mechanism is decorated. And of course, you can draw the parallel of time spent to quality and quality to how well the watch will perform. But a novice can be confused.

With the car analogy, same thing. I'm not a professional driver, but I have racked up a fair amount of miles on my cars over the years. I know how an internal combustion engine works and given the right tools, am mechanically inclined enough that I could probably tear down an engine and re build it - maybe not the stuff with computers - but you get the idea. Now - did I even look under the hood of my new truck before I bought it? No. Because what was that even going to tell me? It's a big engine with a big piece of plastic on the top. The only thing I care about is whether it starts when I turn the key and whether the manufacturer has a history of producing engines that will run for miles and miles and miles without any major headaches.

Now, back to amps - I like good amps, I like expensive amps, and given space and resources - I wouldn't mind owning a few more than what i have. Hell - I know my 1979 Boogie Mk II is a good amp - it's been kicking ass for 31 years. But do I need to see the internals of another Fender tweed clone? Do I need to see a board with a bunch of components on them? These wires are twisted together and these wires aren't - blah blah blah. I think I'd even rather see a circuit board than those turret boards - those things look like tinker toys.

Nah - doesn't interest me. I'd rather hear it - well, I mean, I could see a Fender Tweed amp and know that it doesn't interest me.

Great response. Let me ask you.. do you know why your Boogie MKII has been kicking ass for 31 years?
I'll tell you. Its build quality, component quality and attention to detail INSIDE your amp. THATS AMP PORN BRO!!!
You are into amp porn. You are just in denial!!!
If you weren't into amp porn you would be playing out of an amp with pcb mounted pots, sub standard components, thin circuit boards, even thinner board traces and tube sockets that were destined to fail!!!
If you looked at a gut shot of your MKII and compared it to a gut shot of a new JCM2000 Marshall you would smile and get an amp porn boner knowing that you own and play through the MKII!!! How about them apples!! lol...

[Grandturk]

I'll tell you. Its build quality, component quality and attention to detail INSIDE your amp. THATS AMP PORN BRO!!!
You are into amp porn. You are just in denial!!!

Maybe... maybe... I get what you're saying - but I still don't think I'd be able to tell the difference just by looking at a pic of the guts. Are wires that are twisted together better than wires that are not twisted together?

[VitaminG]

all I need is a real man to tell me where to put fuel in the thing. teehee!

[Chief_CrazyTalk]

Buy a PCB JCM800 and be done with it. If that doesn't sound good...