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**Scooter** · 03-04-2011, 09:59 AM

I wouldn't call myself an amp snob by any means. I like the warmth and power tubes offer, just better dynamics to me, but, I will completely agree with you that SS amps are good for live work too. I've been kinda GASsing for a Line 6 Spider IV since I tried a 1x12 version a friend has. Your review has kinda settled the debate for me. Thanks for the insight. BTW 2x12's are the smallest way to go, anything less would be uncivilized....

Thanks again dude.

**lerxstcat** · 03-04-2011, 10:28 AM

I understand that many people are extremely finicky about tone. You can hear the difference, sure, but is it worth it when you are mixed with a band? A decent clean tone and a good high-gain channel will do the trick. At that point your playing is what will count more live than a difference in tone that has a debatable effect. I have to say that at a certain point quibbling about the tone instead of just playing your ass off seems like sniveling or making excuses.

My amps are all low end because of my budget and my low fixed disability income, but I feel they sound great and if my playing has flaws I am not gonna snivel because the amp isn't good enough. It's me who needs more practice if that's the case. I have a Carvin VM100, a Peaveu Triumph P.A,G., an earlier Peavey Triumph, and a Peavey Bandit. I run them through a Carvin X-series 412 or 2 Carvin slant 212s. They all sound pretty good to me. I can certainly gig with them without complaining about my tone. Even if my income suddenl;y became large, I don't know that I'd be unhappy with them, especially the Carvin. Its clean tone is sensational to my ears and the drive channel also sounds great to me, especially with the gain around 12 o'clock and the master around 3 so it can open up.

As I said, I know that higher-end amps do sound better, but I casn sound damn good with these inexpensive amps. I'm sure I am far from the best player around here, but i am good enough to sound good with what I have. I'm not that competitive anymore' Paul Gilbert kind of cured me of that way back in 1986 seeing him live. But each of us has his or her individual voice and no one can be you better than you. Finding yourself and making the most of it is what it's about.

**mastrxplodr** · 03-04-2011, 10:54 AM

i have heard cheap rigs sound great and more expensive rigs sound bad. Examples, one of the best heavy tones I have heard was the budget SS Hughes and Kettner half stack, with a budget PRS. He had a large pedal board with it and could really layer his sound without it sounding too processed. Same show, a kid had a nice Orange Rockerverb half stack with a beautiful high end Ibanez. He put a Digitech multi fx in front of it and it was garbage. And I love the Orange sound, it was criminal lol.

**markD** · 03-04-2011, 12:06 PM

your list of amps is impressive, as is your ability to use a "cheap" amp live. the only "cheap" amps i have ever been able to get to "work" for me are the first generation marshall valvestate. but then, i didn't like the following amps live either:

soldano SLO
soldano X88R
soldano SP77
soldano astroverb
mesa/boogie MKIV
marshall JCM800 2204
marshall 6100LM
marshall JMP
marshall 3203
laney AOR50
peavy XXX
carvin V3
carvin X100B
rivera knucklehead reverb
rivera knucklehead
fender tonemaster
crate stealth 50

for "cheap" amps that i have tried live, and disliked, that list includes:

line 6 flextone II
peavey supreme
randall V2
randall RG100
fender FM100
crate GX1200

NONE of the amps listed above gave me the "feel" and frequency response i was looking for. in one way or another, my playing suffered a little bit while using those amps. now, some of the amps from the first list i wish i still had, JUST so i could say that i have them, but they would be furniture, not usable tools.

i agree with you, john, regarding build quality. as a gigging guitarist, i have seen many amps get bumped and dropped. the "cheap" amps seem to hold up just as well as the "expensive" amps - though dropping an amp from ANY height is risky (duh) - so don't listen to eddie van halen and believe you can drop your 5153 from the back of a truck 20 times and still turn it on without checking the tubes or anything!!!!

for me, it comes down to what i can afford and whether or not it is going to give me what i need to hear in order to be the best player i can. as i have said before, i have pretty much used the same rig since 1990. i am always up for trying new things, and i get excited when some new amp comes along. i also know that i will have a short love affair with it because my current rig is like my voice. so in that regard, i guess i am on the same page as lerx.

**jgcable** · 03-04-2011, 12:59 PM

Thanks for the comments so far. I intended this thread to be for the JCF members that may be thinking about joining or forming a band and they need to go out and buy a live rig with limited cash. Thats probably most everybody here!
All the talk of Ubershalls and Soldano's, Mesa's and high end Marshall's is intimidating and could cause some players to put off joining or forming a band because they can't afford a $3000.00 rig.
Its not necessary bros. You can go out and buy a brand new Kustom 100w head for $200.00 and a 2 x 12 or a 4 x 12 cab made by Crate or some other company for under $300.00 and go out and gig your butt off.
You can buy one of those slick new Line 6 modeling amps for under $400.00 and gig anywhere you want.
Don't think that just because the other guitar player is using a Bogner or a Soldano or whatever that you need to have a comparible rig.
Its simply not true. I would say that if you know how to play you could make almost any decent amp sound good.
If you suck, how much your amp costs isn't going to help you out. Some of the best guitar tones in history were accomplished by using all kinds of inexpensive amps. I heard that Jimmy Page used a little Fender Champ to record the guitar solo for Heartbreaker.
My band did a big festival and one of the warm up acts was a bunch of kids who showed up with low end combos and I mean LOW END.
One kid was playing a 2nd gen Spider head and a beat up no name cab. He didn't even have a footswitch for the amp.
Anyway, the band kicked butt and his guitar tone was outstanding. He was mic'd. I bet his rig cost $400.00 total tops. My rig at that gig was probably arouund $3500.00. I will say with complete honesty that his guitar tone was just as good as mine through the PA.
Stage volume didn't matter because the stage had a fantastic monitoring system so the guitar amp stage volume levels were fairly low.
Their other guitar player had a 1 x 12 Marshall Valvestate combo. One of those $299.99 combos brand new. It sounded outstanding.
Just goes to show you.

**Scooter** · 03-04-2011, 02:50 PM

I just got back from test driving a HD 150 half stack, and I'm impressed. The variety of settings and models is really cool, it covers about everything I can think of. There was a setting for 'Bark at the Moon' so I had to play it. Pretty close IMO. The price isn't bad for what it is, but the only drawback I've seen is accessories. There are no covers for it (seperate) and you must have their footswitch (2 models, also seperate) to download settings/upgrades, and these aren't cheap. The lower end one was reasonable so I said WTH and started a layaway on the whole setup. I liked it that much. I'll get it out in about a week, gonna sell off some other stuff to pay for it or the wife will see the checkbook and I get the big WTF!?

I hope it lives up to my expectations, which aren't real high, but I think I'm going to be happy. NAD soon!

**hippietim** · 03-04-2011, 03:06 PM

I can get by with a lot less than I actually want to use. But I will always play better with a better tone. IOW, I don't have to have my Axe-FX or a Bogner but using a cheap ass solid state Crate is not going to have me jumping for Jesus with excitement and inspiration.

There are affordable amps out there that are worthy. Carvin and Fender offer some great amps at price points that should be affordable to most folks pursuing this semi-seriously. You don't have to get stuck with a piece of shit just because you have a limited budget. I always found good gear over the years no matter what my budget was. Don't settle. Don't buy some random ass thing just because it's cheap.

**hippietim** · 03-04-2011, 03:09 PM

Oh, and always go for a good single channel amp over a mediocre multi-channel amp. A good single channel amp will let you clean up by rolling back the guitar volume and get heavier with a dirt pedal. That's way more satisfying.

**Guitar_Symphony** · 03-04-2011, 03:20 PM

I wish you guys could hear my buddy live Here in Nd...
with his 2 Bugera 333xl's...running together in seperate cabs..(marshall 1960's)
they do covers of alot of ozzy stuff....sounds like your at a real ozzy concert..
plus he's a great guitarist..but for less than $600 a head new.....what the hell huh...
I bought one because of him..of course he runs an eventide pedal and a rack unit to run both heads...
but thats all...

**Grandturk** · 03-04-2011, 04:08 PM

When I was in high school playing out in a band, I used some Peavey 100 watt 2x12 combo and a DOD distortion pedal. Its what was available at the time. In college, I had a Peavey Bandit 1x12. I paid maybe $80 for it. It worked. I played a MIJ Strat, a Kramer Focus and a Gibson SG Special

Now, cheap stuff in terms of reliability - my experience - Here's a pic of my "upstate rig." This was my first Marshall amp - 1st gen Valvestate amp - 8020. I'm not going to glorify the sound of this amp - its not good. Further, it came with a push-button power switch which died within the first year of operation. The power switch is now held down by a block of foam and a lot of duct tape wrapped around the amp. So yeah, it still works. This one stays at my summer home.

Now that I'm older and have some disposable income to spend on guitars and amp - I buy what I want within reason.

**Grim** · 03-04-2011, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by hippietim View Post

I can get by with a lot less than I actually want to use. But I will always play better with a better tone. IOW, I don't have to have my Axe-FX or a Bogner but using a cheap ass solid state Crate is not going to have me jumping for Jesus with excitement and inspiration.

There are affordable amps out there that are worthy. Carvin and Fender offer some great amps at price points that should be affordable to most folks pursuing this semi-seriously. You don't have to get stuck with a piece of shit just because you have a limited budget. I always found good gear over the years no matter what my budget was. Don't settle. Don't buy some random ass thing just because it's cheap.

+1 on carvin and fender. My V3 was a great amp, and I still love my Hot Rod Deluxe. Both are fantastic and cheap.

**clifffclaven** · 03-04-2011, 05:32 PM

you are 100% right, jg. Heres a pic from last years summer jam we played... Looks like ive got 3 full stacks, LOL... look over the monitor. Thats a second gen flextone 2 micd up. Ths side fills were ridiculously huge, so i just ran guitar thru those, and we were first on the bill, usually meaning zero stage space, although not in this case. Worked perfectly for our 40m set, and had several people say "what amp were you using, it sounded great". This was an outdoor gig for 5000 people.

**warlok** · 03-04-2011, 05:53 PM

This thread is a great idea. I've been enjoying your amp review series quite a bit jgcable..

Originally posted by jgcable View Post

I would say that if you know how to play you could make almost any decent amp sound good.
If you suck, how much your amp costs isn't going to help you out.

^^ Not much truer could a statement get!!

**P I K A** · 03-04-2011, 07:33 PM

Ive played line 6 live quite a bit but never was completely happy with my sound. I have tubes now and am much happier. There were only 2 times that the tone of other bands made me ask what gear was he using. One was a matchless dc-30 with a tubescreamer and the other was a splawn quickrod so I guess i dont fit this pattern you guys are talking about.

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