Axe-FX II

[javert]

Okay, I managed to find the link to the article I mentioned. The article is

J. Pakarinen and D. T. Yeh, "A Review of Digital Techniques for Modeling Vacuum-Tube Guitar Amplifiers" In Computer Music Journal 33(2):85-100, Summer 2009.

You can click the link to open it.

[Cliff]

Awesome! Thanks.

[BayRocker]

What will happen is you'll get some saying the original Axe-FX sounded better - older is better

....and whether or not it is a Pre-Fender model.

Interesting thing is....
Axe FX Standard on Fractal.com (clearance, but brand new) = $1299
Axe FX Standard on the Bay (Used) average BIN = $1500.

The used prices on the Ultras are roughly the same as the Clearance price. If it's only 1 or 2 hundy more for brand new, I'm going new.

Something's askew.

I know that will have to change, eventually.

[RacerX]

... Fractal.com

it's http://www.fractalaudio.com/

[BayRocker]

I did that just so you'd have something to correct for the day.

[maltomario]

I live in upstate ny and I gigged my axefx ultra all the time. put in about 140+ 4-hour shows on mine over 18 month time span until i retired to focus on my MSEE thesis. never had a problem, and sounded excellent and *consistent*, unlike most tube amps i've played.

[Shawn Lutz]

good luck on your MSEE Mario...

I really think the used Ultra and Standards will continue to drop.

[Hellbat]

Undoubtedly once the II's start to ship and people get them and start posting the ZOMG 2000% better than the ultra, all the mid-adopters will start to dump theirs.

[PowerTube]

On the tubes vs. modeling debate, let me toss this in the ring. I currently have a Marchall JCM 800 2210 in the Classifieds. Why am I selling it? I never play it any more since I got my Line 6 gear. I hear people say things like, "Dude! You don't know what you're missing! Dime that sucker out and you'll be amazed!"

Please. If I lived in the middle of the Arizona desert without another soul for miles in every direction, I might be able to set it out 100 yards away and facing away from me if I wanted to try that. And regardless of how it might sound it I could do that, it's still one sound.

So, to get a decent sound at a reasonable volume, I have to use... (brace yourselves) ..... pedals. So therefore, when you really stop and think about it, at least 85% or more of my sound is coming from the pedals. I haven't opened any of them up in a while, but I'm pretty sure that neither the Metal Zone or the GE-7 have tubes in them!

Even at the lower bedroom volumes where the Marshall sounds great with the pedals, guess what? There's a hiss coming from the GE-7. The hiss gets louder as you turn the volume up. Try a different EQ, you say? I have, and only the GE-7 does the "magic" I like.

Conversely, the Vetta gives me every sound I love in a multitude of flavors, not to mention that I have those available at the press of a footswitch button and with exactly zero hiss. It also gives me that tight, tube-like "chunk chunk" sound, something I never heard a traditional solid state amp do.

As impressed as I am with the Vetta, and if I'm not mistaken, it's still only a 24-bit processor (I *think* that's right). Modeling will only get better. Wait until they get into the 64-bit realm or above and we'll have tones that no tube amp ever touched.

[emperor_black]

Pedals! Life savers man. I totally agree. I loved the sound of the GE-7. My main distortion sound was a line 6 Uber metal (coincidentally, I bought it because it was the one that jgcable recommended on a very old thread ). With its onboard noise gate, it still was not enough to avoid feedback because we were playing so LOUD in my old band. I could hear my band mate practicing like 100 yards away through my car's closed windows. No wonder cops were called a couple of times.

However, there was always something missing. Its either too sterile, or too soft. With modelling...first it was the Gt-8 and then the POD's and now the AXE, it just gives so many options, it cannot be ignored. And yes, I've played through a Carvin TS100 with its levels maxed (in mono) through a single 4x12 standing 3 ft away. I've heard the tones from several distortion pedals, eq pedals, mark iv and bogner uberschall. None can touch the axe's tone options/versatility.

[MOSHWITZ]

Sup?

A little clip from Cliff himself of the Axe-II

I'm going to post this even though it's full of clams...

www.fractalaudio.com/tmp/sgtb.mp3

Sounds like pretty damn good tone to me


and a few more words from cliff... plus a question from someone..

The clip demonstrates the "note bloom" that VVT produces. In the slow passage at the start listen to the character of the sustained notes changing.

That's just Plexi Treble cranked into a Basketweave G12H30. Little delay and 'verb. No EQ or any other processing.

PRS Custom 24 with stock pickups.

Cool - I can hear the character change - compares well to the changes of the original.

Is the "note bloom" you heard what led you to develop VVT - to capture that change over time?

Yes, that was one of the reasons. As you listen to clips from modelers what you start to recognize is a certain "stationary" aspect to the tone compared to the every-changing tonality of a tube amp.

Another thing is finger response. With a good tube amp you can vary the tone quite a bit just by how you fret the note and attack it. Modelers tend to make every note sound the same.

So I tested some hypotheses and came to the conclusion that it's because a real vacuum tube has a transfer function that is not static. The transfer function is dependent on time, frequency and amplitude. Where you really hear it is in the in-between regions where the tube is just starting to distort.

At first I tried some dynamic transfer functions but that was a lesson in futility. So then I created the VVT stuff. In VVT there is an actual vacuum-tube replica in software. You enter the values of the resistors and capacitors on the grid, cathode, etc. and it behaves just like a tube complete with Miller effect, cathode memory, etc. The problem is that it requires an obscene amount of horsepower so the only solution was a dedicated DSP.

The other big part of the G2 sound is the output transformer modeling. The OT distorts and as it distorts its inductance decreases which changes the bandwidth and loop characteristics.

Here is another clip he posted some time ago with the new modded marshall.

New Amp Model Preview



Jose Arrendondo modded Plexi:

www.fractalaudio.com/tmp/bg.mp3

MOSHON
DAVE

[hippietim]

Following the Line 6 corporate model.
The new users of the Axe FX II are going to be digging it so much the owners of the original and the Ultra will be dumping them shortly. Stay tuned.
Thats the nice thing about using a standard old tube amp. How many updates as a Rectifier or an SLO had in the last 10 years?
Its all about hype and industry buzz. Guitar rigs have become the new PC's. Buy one and in about 3 years its outdated.

The Standard started shipping almsot 5 years ago and the Ultra started shipping almost 4 years ago. I got it on the Ultra within a month or two of them shipping initially. In that time Cliff has released 8 major updates and dozens of minor releases. And they were all free. With Line 6 you could barely get them to fix bugs much less get any new features and you had to spend another $50 per model pack to upgrade. And nothing Line 6 has ever released comes close to touching the Axe-FX and I've own every generation of Line 6 modelers. Oh and the Axe-FX replaced an Eventide Eclipse for me as well. And note that the day the Axe II was announced, Fractal released a major update for the Axe-FX. Who else does that? And Cliff has already stated he will be releasing some more amp models for the Axe-FX. Line 6 business model? I don't think so.

As for updates to the Rectifier, they've updated it a number of times - that's why people seek out specific versions. And there have been a number of variations in the Rectifier amp family. As for the SLO, it is just about my favorite amp of all time but it doesn't sound special until you get the master up to about 6 and that is unfuckingbelievably loud - that's not useful to me unfortunately. It was a sad day when I sold my SLO. And the SLO could desperately use some updates. It has one of the worst effects loop in the industry (this is probably the #1 mod done to an SLO). Right behind the SLO for worst loop is most Mesa Boogie products - the Lonestar is probably their worst example of an effects loop.

And this coming from you! You change amp and effects rigs more often than Newc probably changes his underwear. I've been gigging regularly with my Axe-FX for over 3 years. I bet you haven't even kept a single rig for 3 years

[jgcable]

I talked to a local guy yesterday who did a gig with a band who's guitar player was playing through an Axe FX Ultra and powered FRFR monitors and direct through the console. He said it sounded like a recording of a very good guitar tone piped through the PA and to his ears it didn't sound "real".
This guy has been playing through a Vetta II since it first came out so he is not a tube snob in any way. He was considering an Axe FX after all the hype and clips online but after hearing it he didn't thing it was that much different from his Vetta. He has grown tired of the digital modeling tone which seems to be very typical for regular gigging musicians.
He is now selling his Vetta and looking at the Carvin V3, a Frayette and the Mesa Mark V.

[hippietim]

John, I've considered going back to tube amps. I've still got a Bogner Fish and a Boogie 2:90 power amp. There is something pretty fantastic about that rig. It does feel a bit better to me when I'm just playing by myself. But with the band I don't notice any loss of feel. And when I'm playing live I don't even think about it. And as great as the Fish/Boogie rig is, in the mix it doesn't sound better. I have no particular love or hate for tubes, solid state, or digital gear. I'm not even slightly religious about it. If anything, I'm a bit anti-modeler (really) but I can't deny what my hands and ears tell me about this Axe-FX rig I've got. And I've never, ever had more compliments on how my band sounded before. Every single gig we play I get folks asking WTF do we do to get such a good mix. Me not having an ungodly loud stage volume to get good tone is a big part of that.

BTW, my grab and go rig is a Bogner Mojado combo with a small pedalboard. It's a blast. But even though that amp is a 6V6 and only like 18 watts, most times I'm sitting in with folks I can't turn it up much either. It still sounds OK but it doesn't reach it's potential at that volume.

Tell your buddy he needs to spend time with the Axe-FX himself. I've seen enough guys with great gear get bad tone that I try not to make any judgements of any gear based until I've had a chance with it myself. For example, our drummer plays in another band and one of the guitar players has an Egnater head and 2x12 cabinet and several nice guitars. He gets the most horrid tone I've heard in a club in years. It's truly dreadful buzzing bees fucking noise. He's the only guy in town playing that rig that I've seen so if I were to make a judgement of that rig based on his tone I'd say that Egnater sucks balls. But I know it doesn't because I've played through that same rig and it's actually quite good.

Your buddy can't go wrong with the Mark V though. It's a great sounding amp. I wasn't able to quite get the sort of classic Marshall type sound that I prefer with it but there are some great tones in that box.

[Rupe]

The Fractal stuff is incredible. I gigged for over a year with my Ultra and had more compliments on my tone than with any other rig that I ever used...it really is an amazing piece of equipment and worth the price of admission for the effects alone. I moved mine for several reasons but my main issue was that I couldn't tweak on the fly if I felt my tone wasn't quite right for the room that I was playing (which has been addressed with the II). I also found myself using the Marsha model for most of my heavy tones so when I was offered a real Marsha in a trade I weighed the situation and decided to go for it. My line of thinking was that to buy the Marsha equipped as this one was would be about $4000 new and they seemed to be holding their value very well due to lengthy lead times from Rack Systems. I had about $2800 wrapped up in my Ultra and a FRFR. I figured if I didn't care for the Marsha that I could easily sell it and repurchase the Ultra and FRFR while pocketing a few hundred bucks. I also heard that Cliff was working on something new (which is why I'm shocked that so many people feel blindsided by the II's release) which would effectively kill the value of my Ultra (only an issue if I decided it wasn't my ideal solution)...another reason to leverage its current (at the time) value to check out something that I was very interested in.

I love the Marsha (its a keeper) but I'm amazed at how well the Axe captured its vibe. Through a good system it will move air as well as any tube amp rig that I've ever used and respond just as dynamically to feedback and player nuance. And for recording the Axe is a godsend...consistent tone day in and day out.
I will be an owner again at some point...either another Ultra or more likely a II.