Fattening up the tone for solo's

[jgcable]

Randall RM100 running Blackface, Ultra and XTC modules. Marshall 1960B loaded with T75's. I use the Blackface for clean, the XTC for rhythm and the Ultra for solo boost.
I would like to fatten up my tone for solo's. I think its a little thin past the 12th fret.
I only use a splash of delay and reverb and I have a true bypass wah out in front. Thats it.
I used several guitar amps and combinations for solos on some of the new songs on our new record SINISTER F and because of this my solo's and lead lines are very thick.
We are now rehearsing for a small local tour debuting our newest record and I want to get my tone a little closer to the record. I might need to use multiple amps but I would like to keep my rig simple. What would you suggest for me to fatten up my guitar solo's live. I don't need to add any gain.

[markD]

one of the things that i have done in the past is run a second delay set to 68ms. that comes VERY close to the sound you get when you double a lead. don't mix it in to high - maybe 25-30% max. keep the repeats short. i have also blended in a pitchshifter set an octave lower, mixed in at maybe 10% max. just enough to make things fatter.

[Chad]

I'm running a GT-10 into the effects return of my MTS amps currently (I'm not using modules). I normally run an EQ after the preamp with a Low Cut around 110hz. When I solo, I drop that down to 55hz. That gives a small, but noticeable bass boost. Seems to work good. So maybe throw an EQ in the loop and boost the lower frequencies.

[horns666]

Hey John..how ya been man??

maybe consider using an effect like the Boss Octave OC-2 pedal. Just a hint of it. Mike Amott of Arch Enemy/Spiritual Beggars uses the Randall. Not that it really matter because he's sounds the same no matter what amps..Krank..Marshall..5150..Randall..ect. He just uses a hint of delay..classic Boss OC 2 (Octave)..and cry baby. He's a VERY tasty player from Uli/Schenker/Wolf/Haoffman school. His solo are very thick and says the Boss OC-2 does the trick. I never noticed until he mentioned it.

I find that EQ of any kind, even tho they seem awesome for tone shaping/solo boost..really are actually tone suckers..IMO! Boosting/cutting freqs just takes away the organic sound of your tube amp. Even more so than slammin' the front with an OD pedals (which I do now). BUT..Uli had about 157 pedals in front of him. He sounded completely organic. He didn't use EQs tho. Just the basic shit mentioned above...including the OC-2.

Can you use the XTC for solos..just thinkin'. that sounds thin?

[jgcable]

Hey John..how ya been man??

maybe consider using an effect like the Boss Octave OC-2 pedal. Just a hint of it. Mike Amott of Arch Enemy/Spiritual Beggars uses the Randall. Not that it really matter because he's sounds the same no matter what amps..Krank..Marshall..5150..Randall..ect. He just uses a hint of delay..classic Boss OC 2 (Octave)..and cry baby. He's a VERY tasty player from Uli/Schenker/Wolf/Haoffman school. His solo are very thick and says the Boss OC-2 does the trick. I never noticed until he mentioned it.

I find that EQ of any kind, even tho they seem awesome for tone shaping/solo boost..really are actually tone suckers..IMO! Boosting/cutting freqs just takes away the organic sound of your tube amp. Even more so than slammin' the front with an OD pedals (which I do now). BUT..Uli had about 157 pedals in front of him. He sounded completely organic. He didn't use EQs tho. Just the basic shit mentioned above...including the OC-2.

Can you use the XTC for solos..just thinkin'. that sounds thin?

Hey Bill, still lovin that Uli Autograph you got for me. I have it framed and sitting on a shelf in my music room. The XTC doesn't have enough gain when its turned up really loud. Its great for rhythm though. The Ultra is outstanding for soloing but like I said.. I think my solo tone in the upper registers above the 12th fret is a little thin. Actually, its alot thin. I was thinking about a octave pedal or a pitch shifter or detuner of some sort.
I will have to dig into my Rocktron Intellifex blackface (one of the original models) and see what I could find. I also have a Digitech TRS32 effects processor and a Yamaha SPX90-II that might have something in it I could use.
The Vetta II used to have a cool feature called a double tracker that worked great for solo's. It allowed you to put a delayed response between 2 amp models playing at the same time. It really fattened up lead lines.

[Larz]

Aside from delay methods, maybe trying something along the lines of an xotic effects EP booster? Obviously a booster at heart, but very transparent and does add some fat or width to your sound without really changing it. Sounds really good to me through my both my Z and Mesa.

Or similarly, the fulltone fat boost or Clinch FX EP-PRE?

[Nimitz]

:idea:

[Chad]

Hey John..how ya been man??

maybe consider using an effect like the Boss Octave OC-2 pedal. Just a hint of it. Mike Amott of Arch Enemy/Spiritual Beggars uses the Randall. Not that it really matter because he's sounds the same no matter what amps..Krank..Marshall..5150..Randall..ect. He just uses a hint of delay..classic Boss OC 2 (Octave)..and cry baby. He's a VERY tasty player from Uli/Schenker/Wolf/Haoffman school. His solo are very thick and says the Boss OC-2 does the trick. I never noticed until he mentioned it.

I find that EQ of any kind, even tho they seem awesome for tone shaping/solo boost..really are actually tone suckers..IMO! Boosting/cutting freqs just takes away the organic sound of your tube amp. Even more so than slammin' the front with an OD pedals (which I do now). BUT..Uli had about 157 pedals in front of him. He sounded completely organic. He didn't use EQs tho. Just the basic shit mentioned above...including the OC-2.

Can you use the XTC for solos..just thinkin'. that sounds thin?

That's pretty cool Mike uses an OC-2. Did not know that and never specifically remember hearing it when he plays. I'll have to listen closer. He must run it pretty low in the mix.

I don't agree with the blanket statement that EQ sucks tone. After all, amps have their own EQ controls and it's not always in the same place in the circuit. I will agree that a little goes a long way and too much can be a bad thing. That's why my EQ tweaks are slight for solos. But in the end it's all subjective and what sounds good is good. EQ is currently working for me, but I might try using the OC sim on my GT-10 to see how that works.

[horns666]

Yes Chad..I understand about the EQ thing. Man I was running two 31 bands, parametrics, and whatnots for many years. SO much tweaking it made crazy..I have OCD!! Do you know what all those levers seem like to me..they all have to be perfect and shit. The BIGGEST thing I discovered back around '90 was the BBE 422. I know it's not an EQ but when it gels with an amp..it's amazing. I run one with my Marshalls. That REALLY fattens it up big time. The Bogner hates it. ALL Peaveys love it! The Sonic Stomp in the loop would be an easy way to check..Jeff Loomis ran one for a while. He's so friggin' articulate.

Here's the thing. I've played with the G-Majors three parametric section for hours on end. I was right back to OCD. I thought I dialed up an amazing sound. Then I bypassed it..and it was better. Just all Bogner..raw as hell. I can't F with that.

Yeah man..when I get the chance to listen for Mike's solos..I'll post the ones he's using the Boss OC-2. You'll hear it for sure. The lower octave is kinda burried close to the bass freqs. what can ya say Andy Sneap is the man!!

_______________________

HEY John!!! Very cool about the framed Uli-graph. Yeah, me too man. It was so cool to see him. I'll see him again next month with Schenker and Lesie West. :idea:Shit..In Fact. I Leslie West uses a Boss OC-2 (Missisippi Queen), or that old Hendrix fucker. I had the brown Boss back in the day, and didn't think much of it at the time. My Bogner isn't fat ..it's bloated. I'd love to play with the octave FX on the G-Major..I think I might.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

use a tube screamer type pedal with the level up and gain down (clean boost). done!

[Trem]

Sounds kinda basic and may not be what you are looking for, but first thing i tend to go for is the tone knob on my guitar when i want to fatten up the higher strings/registers.

[Chad]

I tried the Pitch Shifter in my GT-10 for a bit. Set it to one octave down. Ran the direct/dry signal at 100% and varied the wet (octave down) to varying degrees. Tried it both before and after the preamp. I can't get it to sound good. Rather than thickening things up, it just sounds like a......one octave down pitch shifter.

I wonder how exactly Mike's is setup? Wonder if goes pre or post distortion, if he delays the octave signal, or anything else?

[Chad]

Sounds kinda basic and may not be what you are looking for, but first thing i tend to go for is the tone knob on my guitar when i want to fatten up the higher strings/registers.

Totally simple, yet I've never tried that. I just don't fiddle with the tone knob much. But I did setup a S/S/S Strat where one tone control is for the neck pickup and the other for the bridge pickup. Then I turn the tone on the bridge pickup down. It's surprising how much more useable a bridge single coil is just by passing off some of the highs. It indeed thickens things up. I learned that "trick" from Lincoln Brewster. Anyway, that was more of a "set it and forget it" kind of thing. I'll have to play around with the tone knob more and see how it works for solos and such.

[Nightbat]

I use a parametric EQ for leads

I put in a narrow mid spike boosting to the level where it absolutely stands out, then I search for the frequency that compliments the tone I'm after
when I find it, I broaden the band untill it 'thickens up' to my liking, then drop the gain back to 0 dB

Put on some music (yeah sorry, bedroom player PoV, but I guess this might work in a band situation as well)
make sure the music is level with my amps (rhythm) output, then slowly dial the gain of the frequency up again on the EQ
untill I find my guitar slowly shining through at the level I want to stand out

When I find the tone not fitting with the character of the music, usually all I have to do is shift the band's frequency a little 'till it fits in

[jgcable]

I use a parametric EQ for leads

I put in a narrow mid spike boosting to the level where it absolutely stands out, then I search for the frequency that compliments the tone I'm after
when I find it, I broaden the band untill it 'thickens up' to my liking, then drop the gain back to 0 dB

Put on some music (yeah sorry, bedroom player PoV, but I guess this might work in a band situation as well)
make sure the music is level with my amps (rhythm) output, then slowly dial the gain of the frequency up again on the EQ
untill I find my guitar slowly shining through at the level I want to stand out

When I find the tone not fitting with the character of the music, usually all I have to do is shift the band's frequency a little 'till it fits in

Very interesting and cool way to do it. Thanks. I am going to try that.