Boogie MkIV vs MkV

[jgcable]

If you aren't a knob tweaker and you aren't willing to commit ALOT of time dialing in your tones you should stay away from a Mark IV or a Mark V. Heck... even the Mark III is a pain in the but to dial in.
It also depends on the tone you are looking for. If you are into high gain Soldano type tone you won't find it in either amp.
If you are looking for modded Marshall type tone ala Dokken.... look elsewhere.
If you are looking for Mesa Rectifier tone... look elsewhere.
The Mark IV and Mark V are good for EVERYTHING else. You just have to be prepared for a LONG AND STEEP learning curve.
Personally, I would pickup a used Mark IV over the Mark V which IMHO is still overpriced.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I don't think the V is hard to dial in at all. There are no push/pulls and each channels has completely independent tone and mode controls.

Mine came with a plastic "demo card" which is just a flat plastic sheet that fits on top over the handle that shows recommended settings - the same settings as the manual shows as "starting points" and it's a good tone.

It's hard to get a bad tone out of it, aside from turning the bass up too much on the channel EQ's, if you stick with Clean, Crunch, and Extreme for the mode settings. Actually Mark IIC+ and Mark IV modes on the lead channel are hard to get a bad tone from, too (so long as you keep the bass down to 9:00 or so) - Edge and Mark 1 are a little goofy on the middle channel. I think Tweed on the Clean channel is kind of funky, too.

Anyway, there's no cascading gain knobs or push-pulls that affect the whole amp or anything weird like that. If you set it up for the "demo" settings and you aren't really liking it with a few little tweaks from there, move on, this isn't your amp IMO.

One other thing I thought of. I use the Lead channel for heavy rhythm. IIRC the Pentode setting changes the character of the Lead channel to a tighter, more percussive tone, if you play thrash or do a lot of palm mutes, play with that setting, it is one of the more dramatic changes on the Lead channel's tone.

[javert]

Jazz, I think what's a bit different about this amp than a lot of other amps is that the channel EQ is before the gain stage, so how you EQ the channel affects the kind of distortion you get. It took me a long time to figure out that I actually have to use a lot of treble to get the kind of gain and sustain I want, and then I roll it off on the main EQ afterwards. I found the Mark I mode quite easy to use and it sounds good with about the same settings as I use on the extreme mode on channel 3.

[Cliff]

That's all great information - thanks guys. It's interesting to hear some negative feedback about both amps - I haven't heard many people say bad things about them before, but I guess that's cause I've been mostly looking on the Boogie board .
I think the EQ before the gain stage is the same in the Studio 22. Turning the treble up seems to increase distortion, but also lessens the effectiveness of bass and mid. I've been operating it like this, and then eq-ing bass and mid back in at the end. Someone else suggested that idea in another thread, and I think it's a good one.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

Jazz, I think what's a bit different about this amp than a lot of other amps is that the channel EQ is before the gain stage, so how you EQ the channel affects the kind of distortion you get. It took me a long time to figure out that I actually have to use a lot of treble to get the kind of gain and sustain I want, and then I roll it off on the main EQ afterwards. I found the Mark I mode quite easy to use and it sounds good with about the same settings as I use on the extreme mode on channel 3.

Yes on the channel EQ. If you roll those off too far, you won't get much distortion no matter how high you push the gain. I like to keep the mid and treble pretty well cranked on Channel 2 and Channel 3, as I like lots of gain.

Don't get me wrong, I do find Mark I easy to use as long as you like the fundamental Mark I tone, which is not really my thing. Same with Edge. There are some interesting tones there, just not mine. No matter how you EQ either of those modes, they will have a certain fundamental tone, and if you are looking for your basic "high gain hard rock/metal" tone, it isn't it IMO.

Not to say it's useless or there's anything wrong with liking Edge or Mark I modes, I'm just saying it's not what I'm looking for and I would expect they're a bit out of the ordinary - especially Edge - in terms of a modern rock/metal player's kind of tones.

[jgcable]

i thought my MKIV was the greatest bedroom amp ever. i thought it sucked ass when i cranked it. all the glorious, singing tone was gone when i got the amp to gig worthy volumes. people will argue and disagree, but that is my opinion.

much like chris, it was a bucket amp for me too. i was sorely disappointed. i kept it about a year and then sold it. i want to reiterate that it was an AWESOME bedroom amp, but my band gigs a lot and i have a rule about gear: if i don't use it live, it goes.

I agree on all points. I didn't like the amp live either. The only Boogies that I like live are the Recto's. I had many Mark's.
I had a purple stripe Mark III that sounded pretty good live but I never had to turn it up that loud.

[Twitch]

Well, stopped in GC today on the way home from work and gave a few amps the run through. First was a Vyper 212, out of morbid curiosity. Went over like a turd in a punch bowl. Next, Mark III "green stripe"(whatever the fuck that means). My god what a pain in the ass that amp was to figure out how to setup. Ive never seen so many push/pull pots on an amp. It took me 5 or 6 minutes to figure out why the hell no sound was coming out of it. One of the knobs was all the way down, dont remember which one beyond it wasnt a gain or volume knob. Once I got it going, I quickly came to the conclusion it wasnt my thing at all. Finally, Mark V. IMMENSELY easier to configure than the Mark III. More my bag as well. I actually liked the Mark IV mode better than the Mark V mode.

When I first turned the amp on, I set ch3 to 10 watt mode thinking it would sound better at low volume. Wrong, IMO. I switched it up to 90 watt mode and suddenly it had body. In the end, its not for me though. After the Fireball, 6505+ and now the Powerball, Im spoiled by the immense amounts of usable gain and full sound(yeah, I think the PB is thin live, but I havent given up hope. It sounds killer at home). Anyway, I agree with everyone else here, if you dont want to spend hours tweeking, avoid the Boogie Mark series.

On a side note, I plugged into a Dual Rec 112 Roadster for a minute or two. I stand by my "dry" comment earlier. It just seems like the EQ has little effect on the sound, it just is what it is. Maybe its an amp that has to be cranked to have soul, unfortunately, Ive never had the chance to crank one up.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I also have to say that I don't see this amp as a real high gain amp. It does not have the kind of gain my Engls and even the Framus have. I really need to crank the gain, treble and volume for each channel to get near the kind of gain I need for my playing, and this makes the sound rather fuzzy, so I've rolled the treble in the main EQ off and the presence too.

This wasn't making much sense to me until you mentioned rolling the treble and presence off. And I wonder if you cut the mids a little, too. And of course if you have the bass up very high, it's all farty...

I get enough gain out of my Mark V's Lead channel to get an EMG 85 to squeal microphonically at a low bedroom level. It's got serious gain. The thing is, if you don't crank the tone stack you are not going to get much gain.

So, I think if you like a darker tone (which if you like the Mark I you do) and you are one of those guys who doesn't like "fizz" (I like the presence cranked, so... Go figure!) then you may not be able to get much gain out of the amp with a tone you like.

I run Channel 2 "Crunch" with everything turned up all the way, but the bass at about 12:00. IIRC I use the Preset EQ all the way up, and the channel master a little past half. That's enough gain to pull off any kind of "modded Marshall" tone.

For the Lead channel it's about the same but the bass is at about 10:00 and I use the graphic EQ. On Mark IV mode the preamp tubes start squealing (to be expected, it's a shitload of gain) but on Extreme it is a nice, tight sound for heavy metal rhythm. And it squeals even when it's turned down low enough that I can hear the pick hit the strings.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

When I first turned the amp on, I set ch3 to 10 watt mode thinking it would sound better at low volume. Wrong, IMO. I switched it up to 90 watt mode and suddenly it had body.

Yeah, if you want saggy power tube distortion then those modes are good. If you want to play metal, you want tight bass, and you want it on 90 watts.

[etepbbb]

I had a Mark IV and have a Mark V. Cleans are better on the M5, but I love me some M4 chan 3. Thats were may M5 is set, it sounds the best. I'd like'em both, and could easily go back to the M4.

[Twitch]

Yeah, if you want saggy power tube distortion then those modes are good. If you want to play metal, you want tight bass, and you want it on 90 watts.

I guess what I meant was, it would sound cranked at low volume with that setting. Still, wrong.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I guess what I meant was, it would sound cranked at low volume with that setting. Still, wrong.

I know what you mean. I wish there was a way to sound cranked at low volume, but, it's just not really possible IMO.

[javert]

This wasn't making much sense to me until you mentioned rolling the treble and presence off. And I wonder if you cut the mids a little, too. And of course if you have the bass up very high, it's all farty... I get enough gain out of my Mark V's Lead channel to get an EMG 85 to squeal microphonically at a low bedroom level. It's got serious gain. The thing is, if you don't crank the tone stack you are not going to get much gain. So, I think if you like a darker tone (which if you like the Mark I you do) and you are one of those guys who doesn't like "fizz" (I like the presence cranked, so... Go figure!) then you may not be able to get much gain out of the amp with a tone you like. I run Channel 2 "Crunch" with everything turned up all the way, but the bass at about 12:00. IIRC I use the Preset EQ all the way up, and the channel master a little past half. That's enough gain to pull off any kind of "modded Marshall" tone. For the Lead channel it's about the same but the bass is at about 10:00 and I use the graphic EQ. On Mark IV mode the preamp tubes start squealing (to be expected, it's a shitload of gain) but on Extreme it is a nice, tight sound for heavy metal rhythm. And it squeals even when it's turned down low enough that I can hear the pick hit the strings.

I will try the settings you mention and will upload a pic of my own when I get home. You are right in assuming that I do not like the "fizz" as you call it, and what I wrote is of course based on my experience with trying to get the kind of tone I want. I get the feedback thing going too when I use active pickups, but I prefer passives, and the amount of sustain is extremely dependent on the pickups with this amp, more so than with my other amps. Strictly speaking, though, feedback is only a sign of gain at a specific frequency, so you can have feedback without much overall gain.

[MakeAJazzNoiseHere]

I wish I could get a little more gain out of channel 2, but then it would sound just like channel 3.

I might try some different preamp tubes at some point.

[javert]

Haha, I know what you mean. I find myself tweaking the Mark I mode of channel 2 until it sounds like channel 3

I was wondering, what cabs do you use for it? I use my Engl 412 standard which has those Celestion V60 they make for Engl. I've been thinking about trying out some V30s instead.