Attenuators / Hot plates

[wilkinsi]

My understanding is the attenuator allows you to cook your tubes whilst dropping the volume. However, I've read two versions - 1 goes between my GT-10 and the amp's FX return, whilst the other goes between the amp's output and the actual speaker. So which is correct, and which is the best to go with my Randall RT50C combo & GT-10? Some attenuators cost peanuts whereas others cost £500. I want something that will do a good job rather than something cheap n nasty or oppositely, be too expensive to justify.

[Animus]

A true attenuator should go between the amp's speaker outputs and the cab, that way you still get the saturation of the power tubes. I have a THX Hot Plate I got used on ebay for a little over 200, does the job well; but I mainly use it for silent recording and use the Road King's slave out and then Redwirez cab impulses in my DAW.

[Trussrod]

It goes between the power amp and speakers. You can have the power amp cranked and set the volume with the attenuator before the signal goes to the speakers. Keep in mind you will have to replace your tubes more often if you use a device like this.

[wilkinsi]

Looking on the back of my Marshall JMD:1 and Randall RT50C combo amps:

The Marshall has a cable running from amp to speaker. I would just take that off the socket, put it into the THX, then run another cable from that output jack to the THX. I'm assuming I would still connect the GT-10 directly to the FX return as I did on the Randall.

I don't see any cable on the back of the Randall :think:. There are two unused sockets for 8ohm and 4ohm speakers, but I don't see any cable coming from the speaker itself. I hope this doesn't mean I have to buy a cab to make this work.

[roodyrocker]

I don't know about your particular Randall amp but there should be a speaker wire in there somewhere. Perhaps it automatically disconnects the internal speaker when you plug in an external cab? Also be aware that most attenuators don't sound so good if you plan to attenuate the volume down to bedroom levels. They're much better at making an extremely loud amp useable at giaggable volumes. I've tried several attenuators with my Marshall Rhoads and Metro amps (Ho Attenuator, THD Hot Plate, Alex's Attenuator, and Faustine Phantom). I've also tried someone else's Aracom Attenuator. What attenuator are you considering?

[etepbbb]

I used to own a Hot Plate, and all it does whack the current down from the power tubes, before it getting to the speakers. This allows you to crank the master volume and push the tubes, but play at bedroom level volume. There simple to setup: speaker out to attenuator in, attenuator out to the speaker cab.
As with all tube amps, do not disconnect the speakers while the amp is powered up. This can/will damage the output transformer, so make all the connections with the power off.

[wilkinsi]

Unfortunately, it is bedroom level I want to run the amp at. The room is only 3.5 x 4.5m. The Marshall is doable, because the cable is instantly removeable from the amp. I wanted to do the same thing with the Randall, but because there is no visable cable, I'm assuming there is no way to connect an ATT/HP to the speaker. I've sent Randall an email, in the hope they have the answer I want.

[roodyrocker]

Its not that the attenuators won't let you play at bedroom levels. Its just that the tone changes drastically so you may not like it. That Randall has to have a wire going to the speaker somewhere. Perhaps its soldered internally somewhere instead of just plugged in using a standard jack. If thats the case, then yes it will difficult to simply plug in an attenuator. BTW, the THD Hot Plate is not in production so you would need to buy used. If you're looking at new, I would consider the Alex's Attenuator. Its a good attenuator and much less expensive than a Faustine Phantom or an Aracom. Like the Hot Plate, you have to buy the ohm rating for your application. Hopefully both of your amps use the same ohm rating. The Aracom and Faustine can be used with various ohms.

[Trussrod]

Is the Weber mass attenuator any good?

[akoch]

It was discussed and re-discussed many many times here. A search function would bring a lot of useful info on this.

Personally I'm using both the Hotplate and Webber Mass 100. Both are good, but principally different approach.

Don't need to say it again, but it goes between the amp output and the speakers.

The Hotplate is all resistor/capacitor=RC filter network. Fairly complex and works well.

The Mass is essentially a speaker driver/magnet assembly plus some RC network and emulates a real speaker sans the diaphragm. Works really well.

Neither one is really a constitute for a good cab/mike setup for recording, but sure can help to bring the volume down and get the output tube section working harder. As all substitutes it is not a real thing and a compromise. But it is better than nothing when you need that kind of sound.

Hotplate looks more like a slick commercial product. The Mass more like a hack.

The later works however slightly better to my ears, and is more flexible. Also the attenuation is more linear and goes slightly farther both ends.

[wilkinsi]

My questions were as to which were considered good and how I would connect one to my Randall RT50C due to no visable speaker-to-amp cable.

[jgcable]

Usually, attentuating that much will kill your tone. It will sound like you have a heavy blanket draped over your speakers.
There is a rule of thumb on how many db's you can attentuate down and still sound good.
For a small bedroom you are better off with a modeling amp.

[wilkinsi]

Oh Frak

[ralph]

Sounds like you are going to have to mod the amp to have a Jack/socket between the speaker and the amp out, then you could put the attenuator in between

this isnt a big deal, ive seen people do this when they want to turn a combo amp into a stand-alone head

Unless it already has this but is hidden somewhere inside the amp chassis

[wilkinsi]

Yeah, Randall told me it can be done (by an authorised tech only). Not something I want to do myself as I have no experience.