effects loop-parallel to series....?

[jacksonkellyfreak]

hey guys, i belong to a marshall forum but ive asked this question 3 times, and each time im made fun of because my marshall is not a "real" marshall. buncha holier than thou self righteous jerks over there. anyway, the amp is a marshall avt150 head, which to me is a real marshall. its loud, its nasty its got the tone and its got a mean ass bark. so my only problem with the amp is that is has a parallel effects loop. i run digitech processors, (another thing i got a TON of crap for. Have you heard how great the modeling is now? we all cant afford the plexis and this gets close enough to be indistinguishable to my ears) and with my old setup it was one in the loop, and one into the front. i like having tone options, so what i do is run amp modelling in the loop, and my effects off of the front one. well, my clean tone bleeds through even with the fx mix maxed. so what do i have to buy/change? oh if necessary the gear is a digitech gnx3 for the amp models, and a digitech rp500 for the effects. thanks guys

[VitaminG]

that's what you're stuck with, with a parallel loop. The benefit of a parallel loop is that you always have that straight-through signal pass through it, and your effects run "in parallel" so your fundamental tone remains unaffected. Basically, the signal is split after your preamp so that you maintain your "pure" tone, you also have effected tone, and they are summed together going into your poweramp. The FX mix then controls the volume of the effected signal, so that you can add more or less as needed against your fundamental signal.

Great for reverb & delay, where the delayed signal sits sonically separate to your fundamental tone. You might just want to add a touch of reverb for space, not completely saturate your signal & sound like you're playing in a catacomb.

Not so great for chorus, EQ, vibrato, tremolo, etc etc etc. You experience that bleed through of the fundamental tone that you've complained about.

If reverb & delay are all you are using your RP500 for, this should be fine. Set all your FX patches to 100% wet and control the amount of effect with the mix control.

You have a couple of other options:

1. have the amp modded to convert the loop to series. I don't know if I'd waste my money going to all that trouble.
2. trying running some of your FX in front of the amp. Not everything will sound great, but things like flanger & phaser do.

As to your amp, often we can't afford the "cool" stuff, we have to make do with what we can find or afford, or just find that a particular left-of-centre brand or model gives us just the tone we're chasing. Screw the haters. Don't worry about what some brand-conscious internet experts think of what you're playing. Most of them haven't played really good gear anyway - they're just parroting what they've heard elsewhere in the interests of their own street cred. If you think it is good, it is good. Shut them up with how good you can make it sound.

[VitaminG]

hey, I just noticed something. You said you run your amp modelling in the loop, your FX in front, and you're getting bleed through of your clean signal? Your setup sounds bass ackward to me.

If you're just using your amp for clean power, run the modelling in front of the amp (and any overdrive/distortion FX). Run your other FX in the loop.

And, in fact, if all the amp is doing is providing power, you're not too concerned with the flavour of the amp's preamp and your GNX is providing all your tone, run everything into the front of the amp. The only real reason to use the loop (if you don't want to take advantage of the parallel loop) is to ensure that modulation & time based FX are placed after any OD/distortion. Mainly because most of them sound pretty crappy in front.

[bratfink]

Here is a question:

If he is just running amp modelling, could he just run his preamp into the return of the loop to use the power side of the marshall?

[VitaminG]

I was going to suggest that but not sure if that will work the same with a parallel loop. Was going to test it out before suggesting but it's very late here and I would be courting danger firing up an amp this time of night....

[Chad]

I've been able to run into the effects return of my old Dual Rectifier and it has a parallel loop. Might not be the case with some amps depending on how the mix control and circuit are setup. Should be easy to try and can't hurt anything I'm aware of. Just be aware that some amps have the volume control for the power amp before the return, so it is at 100% volume when you plug in. Just turn down the volume on your modeler and make the connections with the amp off or in standby mode.

[Larz]

I have an AVT50 in my collection.......screw the uptight Marshall die hards over there, they should support all the company's products in general if they love them so much, whether its a Hendrix signature head or a Zakk Wylde mini-stack.

[jgcable]

First of all, you have a real Marshall. Nuff said about that.
Regarding your modeling, if you are using the AVT for power only, plug the modeler out to the amp effects loop return.

With that said, I agree with most if now all of VitaminG's response.

[jacksonkellyfreak]

Thanks guys. VitaminG i think i am gonna have it modded, because i tried the other way with the amps going into the front and it sounded awful, especially on clean. and i appreciate everybodys compliments on the amp. nice to know i can go somewhere where the almighty high end stuff isnt the only good tone producers. i LOVE my amp. by itself it sounds to a tee like a jcm 800 on od1 and like a 900 on od2, plus it has a clean channel that will distort when pushed like an old bassman or something. it is a tube preamp, and the only amp models i run are a plexi, a mesa and a roland jc120. and they sound PHENOMINAL. guys im not a salesman, and i don rep digitech in any way, but believe me they have the best sounding models ive ever heard. i love these things. especially through my killer avt. i wanted one forever. thanks guys. ill post back on what i find. i may try to mod it myself

[jacksonkellyfreak]

dual rec huh? bet that thing sounds goooooooooood.

[wilkinsi]

I'm a member on the Marshall forum too. Yep, someone there suggested going all valve.. TBH, I'm quite happy with my Marshall JMD501 (which has a serial loop).

[jacksonkellyfreak]

yea well, they can piss of if they dont like my tone. i do and so do alot of other people. im a hair metal guy, so i tend to stick to a more ratt/def lep/satriani tone