Diezel

[CowboyFromHell]

More like 300hp but used for the purpose its intended for, it's not a bad amp.

[Axegrinder87]

Forgive me, as I neglected to mention it's a MKII, so I stand by my original power figure.

[Chief_CrazyTalk]

I'm sure the Diezels and Bogners etc are all fine amps, but I can't really see spending that much money on an AMP. Personally. Or a guitar for that matter. Personally I like 80s tones and have no use for cleans nor ridiculous gain. I'm happy to be happy with JCM800s and jap J/Cs. No need for vintage plexis or Fenders here, or boutique amps. I'm a big believer in you get what you pay for...but there is also a point of diminishing returns. IMO many of the boutique builders are really pushing it with their pricing lol.

[CowboyFromHell]

Forgive me, as I neglected to mention it's a MKII, so I stand by my original power figure.

Ok, but you still said "Civic' so even as a Mk II I'm only giving you 400hp.

[Grim]

So given these comparisons of amps and cars, does that mean my Spider Valve is a 600hp turbocharged Honda? Cause I can dig on that.

Try about 200hp...

[roodyrocker]

He said Civic and so I give it about 5 minutes before it self destructs

[Axegrinder87]

Hmmm, mine makes 220 to the wheels, without a turbo. Are y'all hating on the car, or amp?

Also, I never once said "Civic".

[CowboyFromHell]

Me personally, I'm hating on the car. Looking back you may not have said Civic but you did say Honda and the only one worth a shit is the S2000. To get 600hp from a Honda you're going to have to spend the cost of a Civic anyway and, like roody said, you can throw reliability out the window. Do you really see your amp as an econo-box you have to pour thousands into for it to perform as well as something reasonably priced that you could have gotten for half the money you poured down a hole?

[Axegrinder87]

You're forgetting the NSX, but I forgive you.

From a cost perspective, Hondas are a great value up to 11 seconds. I'll build you an 11 second Civic today for less than the 10 grand you'll spend on a New Edge GT.

And this, "To get 600hp from a Honda you're going to have to spend the cost of a Civic anyway and, like roody said, you can throw reliability out the window." , couldn't be further from the truth, but I digress.

That's neither here nor there, and not my point at all. My point is, Line6 has the same reputation among tone junkies as Hondas and other foreign compacts have with most close minded gear heads, you know, the kind who still use push rods... The Spider Valve (MKII in particular) is the sleeper Honda that smokes your typical midlife crisis base model Corvette.

[CowboyFromHell]

That Honda may get the Vette off the line, but it's never gonna have the top end to hang with a Vette. I also find it funny you rag on pushrod engines that make twice the horsepower at half the RPMs if the mods are kept similiar for comparison. It's not close-minded to see those obvious facts. Btw, here in the U.S. the NSX is Acura, not Honda.

[Axegrinder87]

Really didn't want to get into this, hindsight is a bitch.

"That Honda may get the Vette off the line, but it's never gonna have the top end to hang with a Vette."

Where the fuck did this misconception come from? What's "top end" measured in? I hear it all the time. You think a Honda or similar just magically runs out of power? Does an American V8 have turbo thrusters that kick in on the back half of the track? Put down the pipe. As great as the aero is on a Vette, it still pales to the power/weight ratio, that is it's own nail in the coffin. In fact, the Vette should have the launch, which is why FWD cars don't belong on a drag strip, it takes WAY too much to get from say 10 seconds to 9 seconds in a Civic.

"Twice the power at half the rpms." Of course, but you're comparing what's typically 5.7 liters to 1.6/1.8 liters. Displacement is the key. It takes heaps of engineering prowess to make considerable power without it. And your typical run of the mill SBC does NOT make considerable power for its size.

Inefficient engineering is poor engineering. Horsepower is a factor of torque and rpm. Torque comes generally from displacement, as well as stroke. But long stroke engines don't like to rev, and small displacement engines don't make torque, thus: short stroke and high rpm.

Hondas F20C engine from the S2000 makes 240 horsepower with 2 liters. That's a record 120 N/A horsepower per liter, while still being reliable and streetable.

Let's do some math.... 120hp per liter x 5.7 liters = 684 hp. You think Chevrolet can build a 684hp N/A Corvette that will last 150k miles and be streetable enough for your mom to drive every day? That's a big FUCK NO, they needed 6.2 liters and an intercooled supercharger for the ZR1, that only makes 634hp.

Ford has been using OHC engines for years in Mustangs, and managed to make comparable numbers, and even run Camaros and Firebirds out of production, with 1.1 less liters of displacement.

THOSE are facts that matter sir.

All bullshit aside, I love American V8s. I've owned Mustangs, Camaros, Corvettes. I'm not biased one bit.

Really? Acura? Come on bro, you know better...


/rant, and I am 100% done with car talk, sorry for derailing the thread even further. I am available via PM if interested.

[horns666]

Here's a word of wisdom..and a reality check.

A 600 HP Honda ..is still be a Honda. It doesn't get Pussy or respect.

A Vette will ALWAYS get more 'spect than 'Stangs. These are fact!

When I pull to an intersection with my Cobra, and I see 'Stangs, Challengers, Camaros, Hot Rods and Vettes...I get ALL the Attention. Because I'm awesome. These are facts!

Why..? It's a Cobra. I don't have to race shit...because I already won.

[CowboyFromHell]

What's "top end" measured in? I hear it all the time. You think a Honda or similar just magically runs out of power? Does an American V8 have turbo thrusters that kick in on the back half of the track?

It's a lil thing called gearing my friend.

"Twice the power at half the rpms." Of course, but you're comparing what's typically 5.7 liters to 1.6/1.8 liters. Displacement is the key. It takes heaps of engineering prowess to make considerable power without it. And your typical run of the mill SBC does NOT make considerable power for its size.

Then don't try to make 600hp with an engine that can't handle it. Build your typical smallblock up to make 600hp and do the same with your tiny ass B18 and see which one breaks first.

Hondas F20C engine from the S2000 makes 240 horsepower with 2 liters. That's a record 120 N/A horsepower per liter, while still being reliable and streetable.

You think Chevrolet can build a 684hp N/A Corvette that will last 150k miles and be streetable enough for your mom to drive every day?

So where's all those daily driven 600hp Hondas?

Ford has been using OHC engines for years in Mustangs, and managed to make comparable numbers, and even run Camaros and Firebirds out of production, with 1.1 less liters of displacement.

For your information, the Camaro is NOT out of production, and the Firebird got the axe in the GM government bailout when Pontiac was killed off because most of its models were remakes of Chevrolet chassis. THOSE are facts. LOL.

Really? Acura? Come on bro, you know better...

Like it or not, it still says Acura on it. According to your logic Mercury, Lincoln, Lexus, or any other brand built by a parent company should only be labeled AS the parent company brand name.

[horns666]

I have a 2 liter bottle of Pepsi. I'm gonna throw a Mentos in it and fuck shit up!

[Grim]

You're forgetting the NSX, but I forgive you.

From a cost perspective, Hondas are a great value up to 11 seconds. I'll build you an 11 second Civic today for less than the 10 grand you'll spend on a New Edge GT.

And this, "To get 600hp from a Honda you're going to have to spend the cost of a Civic anyway and, like roody said, you can throw reliability out the window." , couldn't be further from the truth, but I digress.

That's neither here nor there, and not my point at all. My point is, Line6 has the same reputation among tone junkies as Hondas and other foreign compacts have with most close minded gear heads, you know, the kind who still use push rods... The Spider Valve (MKII in particular) is the sleeper Honda that smokes your typical midlife crisis base model Corvette.

Now you're really talking out your ass.

You're not getting 600hp out of a Honda. Period. A turbo can't physically add more horsepower than the engine already has, you realize this, right?

You also realize that V8s are more inefficient than V6s in terms of hp/L based on design alone, right?

Your sleeper Honda won't smoke a stock Vette, guaranteed.

Also, since we are talking cost efficiency here, You realize that the only Mustang that beats the Camaro SS is the GT500, which is a substantial amount of money more?