bypass loops - programable vs non programable?

[Biff Montana]

Hello everyone,

My apologies if this topic has been covered previously.
I didn't have luck finding recent threads.

Loop Master and many other folks are making loops the are only on & off--no presets.
Companies such as Carl Martin, Moen, Cusack, are making loops capable of presets.
Keeping in mind that cost is one issue for me, tone wise, what works best?
It seems to me that if an 8 loop Loop Master, with no presets, sells for almost the cost
of a Moen (ebay) with 8 loops, Loop Master seems the way to go.

My issue with cost is that I'm finding it hard to spend $$$ on something that
doesn't create anything. Sure, spending $300 for a chorus or $220 for a distorion box, no problem.
But $400 or more on loops? Not sure I'm ready for that.

Again, tone loss vs money spent is a big concern of mine.
Thank you for your time. I look forward to any insight anyone can share.

Biff

[roodyrocker]

I built a couple pedalboards using some loopers. Its a great way to preserve your tone as opposed to running through multiple pedals all the time even when only using one or two of them. I have one board using the Carl Martin Octaswitch and a couple others using the GigRig. The GigRig is a top of the line programmable device with the ability to do more than just switch loops in/out. You can boost each loop individually which is handy for level mismatches especially if you combine vintage and modern effects. It can also be used to boos solos. The GogRig also has two amp outputs which are isolated from each other so you can use multiple amp setups in A/B/ABY. Their Pro 14 or Midi-8 are expensive but absolutely killer. Check out their demos on youtube!
The Octaswitch is cheaper but is also programmable. BTW, both the GigRig as well as the Octaswitch use little dip switches to turn on whichever loops you want. When you step on the switch it activates whichever pedals you selected through the dip switches. Makes it nice to turn on or off multiple pedals at once. The difference is on the GigRig if you step on a switch to turn on that channel, pressing it again shuts it off or bypasses it. On the Octaswitch you have to select a different switch. So you'd have to eat up one of your 8 channels and program it to bypass in order to get just a dry amp sound.
I have also used the German Engineering looper which uses simple on/off switches one per loop. It depends how extensive of a pedalboard setup you plan to run and how much to spend on one of these. If cost wasn't the main factor I'd say go with a GigRig!

[Biff Montana]

Thanks
for the reply...

Did, or do, you notice a tone difference between the on/off looper, the

Octaswitch, and / or GigRig?

[roodyrocker]

Thanks
for the reply...

Did, or do, you notice a tone difference between the on/off looper, the

Octaswitch, and / or GigRig?

No, no tone difference. Same tone just more options of what they can do and to me its important to be able to turn on/off groups of pedals simultaneously and in various combinations. Thats where the programable ones shine. I should also point out another benefit using loopers. In combination with high quality cables, connectors, and even AC/ power cords I can play my 100w Marshall 1/2 stack live without the use of a noise gate. Noise is not an issue even at high gain levels. Going through all those pedals the old fashioned way not only messes with your tone but also becomes noisy at some point

[markD]

i am looking into programmable switchers right now. i have come to a point where the pedal dance is messing with my ability to perform. i want the gigrig but can't afford it right now. here is what i am wanting to program:

(pedals)
mxr phase 90
mxr classic distortion
BOSS fender '63 reverb
SD tweak fuzz

(rack units)
digitech S100
rocktorn HUSH superC

i am wanting something that will allow me midi control - or at least the ability to bypass my rack gear. the biggest problem is that rivera uses a proprietary 8 pin jack for all of the logic functions (channel, loop, boost, etc.). i also want to be able to route the HUSH to either the front or the effects loop, depending on what combination i have programmed.

here are the devices i am looking at:

gcx audio switcher (i already have a midi controller)
moen GEC9 (as far as i can tell, this won't do anything midi)
rivera RM-1 (downside is that it only has 4 loops)
carl martin octa-switcher mkII (doesn't have midi but seems pretty awesome otherwise...)
rocktron patchmate loop 8 (floor or rack)

thoughts, opinions?

[markD]

hmmmm, further research makes it appear that the gcx switcher can only be used with the ground control footswitch?

[Nightbat]

hmmmm, further research makes it appear that the gcx switcher can only be used with the ground control footswitch?

quick search gave me this:

http://www.petrucciforum.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-56846.html&

[markD]

well, it's looking like i am gonna go with a rocktron patchmate since it will work with my rocktron midi controllers. the patchmate seems to offer the same features as the gcx....

now i just need to decide if i want to rack mount my pedals, or get the floor version and keep all that junk on the floor.

[Nightbat]

well, it's looking like i am gonna go with a rocktron patchmate since it will work with my rocktron midi controllers. the patchmate seems to offer the same features as the gcx....

now i just need to decide if i want to rack mount my pedals, or get the floor version and keep all that junk on the floor.

Get a wireless Midi adapter (WiDi), and all you need to throw on the stage is a controller and yourself, while the important stuf is safely tucked away behind the stage

[Biff Montana]

With the GCX or Patchmate does it concern anyone that there is additional cabling involved?
With both units you have to run cable from one loop to the next. I know this offers added flexability but it also
adds more stuff between the guitar & amp...which is why we're looking for a loop system in the first place.
I look forward to all opinions.

As for rack mounting your pedals, if you have the resources, I'd say that's the way to go.
Your pedals would be safer in a rack than on the floor plus you could run a tad less cable.
(less cable from the effects to the amps + lass cable between your loops and rack effects)

[markD]

personally for me, i need something that can be set up and torn down fast. that's why i have decided to rack mount the pedals. after looking at everything - and i mean EVERY-FUCKING-THING (very frustrating) - it looks like the patchmate rack unit with my pedals rack mounted will be the best. i like the voodoo lab system, but their ground control pro is quite large. the midimate is a reasonable size. i will still have to have a couple of "pedals' on the floor - my wah, my rivera switch, and the midi controller.

it would be nice if the rivera could be controlled easily through the switcher, but the amp uses an 8pin DIN cable to control all the functions. i could have something made, but i am not too worried about it.

[Nightbat]

With the GCX or Patchmate does it concern anyone that there is additional cabling involved?
With both units you have to run cable from one loop to the next. I know this offers added flexability but it also
adds more stuff between the guitar & amp...which is why we're looking for a loop system in the first place.
I look forward to all opinions.

Well it's true bypass + extra loop cables for a switcher
~vs~
serial connected - half the cables using pedals (not counting the one from your floor setup to your amp)

[Biff Montana]

Not sure if I made my question clear...my apolgies--I could have formed it better.

I should have asked:

When compared to a true bypass loop such as the Octa Switch or Cusack Pedalboard tamer,
does it concern anyone that there is additional cabling involved with the GCX or Patchmate (both floor & rack versions)?
Take the Octa Switch for example...the signal flow between loops is internal. With a Patchmate , for every loop, you have a loop in,effect send, effect return, and loop out.
You have to run cable between not only the effects but you also have to run cable from one loop to the next.
I know the GCX/Patchmate signal flow offers added flexability but it also adds more stuff (cable) between the guitar & amp...which is why we're looking for a loop system in the first place."

markD:
Based on what you're looking to do I completely agree the Patchmate is way to go. I'd be interested to hear how it works out for you.

[markD]

i was a bit concerned about the external cabling - and wondering why they just didn't do it internally - with the GCX and patchmate (rack). then i realized that the idea was that those products are designed for more than just effects routing. the patchmate floor, i am not too sure why they have the external cabling.....i mean, i am not going to have a looper on the floor running a web of cables back and forth to my amp and/or rack. weird.

but does it bother me? nah. i fgure i will just make some george L's or lava cables that are as short as can be. my rig isn't TOO complex and it doesn't grow THAT often, so i figure that it will be mostly a "set it and forget" type of deal.

[bratfink]

Mark take a look at RJM:

http://www.rjmmusic.com/

The Rack Gismo with a Master Mind might be what you are looking for?