Stupid pa system questions...

[jgcable]

you are pretty much going to do the same thing as with the soundtech. daisy-chain the cabs: one yamaha into one peavey and then hook it up to one side of the amp. repeat. end result? you will be running the amp at 450W perside stereo into 4ohms!!

Is that going to be more powerful (louder) than running it at 900w mono with one cab on both sides?
Basically, is 450w per side stereo into 2 cabs on each side at 4 ohms louder than 900w per side into 1 cab on both sides?

[jgcable]

So the QSC power amp fell through. They sold it right before I got there.
I am now looking at a Crown XLS402. Its 400w per side 4 ohm and 800w bridged mono.
Its 2 RMS. Its basically the same as my Soundtech PS802 which has the same rating but only 1 RMS. The Soundtech does a fair amount of clipping when we play live set at 800w bridged mono and having 2 8 ohm pa cabs plugged into it.
I gotta think that the Crown will do a much better job. I will have to run it in stereo 4 ohms 400w per side though because I am going to be using 2 8 ohm cabs chained together per side. Is 400w per side 4 ohms sufficient power for a rock band playing small clubs? We were able to pull it off with just the Soundtech run in bridged 900w mono and another smaller power amps for the monitor system but the Soundtech clip lights were flashing constantly. I couldn't hear any clipping in the PA.
Thanks!

[roodyrocker]

My only experience with the Crown XLS402 is that we ran one of those to power our monitors in my old PA system. We used two QSC RMX2450 power amps for the mains. A friend had his Crown XLS402 go into thermal shut down mode when pushed hard so I'm not so sure you want to run that as your only power amp for mains and on the ragged edge at that. Besides I would think you need some head room in the amp or your PA will sound distorted even if the power amp survives. As far as 450w being enough for small clubs, before getting separate power amps we used a Carvin powered board that was 400w and it got us by.

[sambencuda]

John, Mark Chairamonte at the studio is selling a whole bunch of used gear from a music store that closed upstate. He has these power amps for sale and he's selling this stuff cheap. Let me know if you want to meet me over there one night after work.

power amps.jpg

[clifffclaven]

jg- the short answer? If youre just using the two peaveys (115/horn) get an amp that bridges at 4ohms, not 8. And generally, you want an amp that is double the power of your cabs continuous rating- if the cabs are rated for 400w continuous, you want an amp that deliver close to twice that. The reason youre getting clipping is because A) your amp doesnt have enough headroom, and B) youre running a 4 ohm load on an 8 ohm output from the amp. Im surprised you havent blown the output transformer on it.

something like this-http://www.musiciansfriend.com/pro-audio/crown-xls1500-drivecore-series-power-amp

PS- if you run all four cabs, do NOT try to run the amp mono (bridged)- thats a 2 ohm load and youll blow it up.

[jgcable]

We ended up scoring active mains. Mackie 450w main cabs. Now we are using the 900w Soundtech for the monitor system, the 450w powered mackies up on tripods and we have a standalone 800w system with a seperate mixer dedicated to the drums alone.
Basically we are using everything we got!

[markD]

cool! what kind of gigs are you playing where you need to cart that much PA? we rarely do gigs that require us to cart our own PA - we have only done 3 in the last 5 years. are the rooms huge? is it a cover band? i have always been curious about venue size/gig type for bands that cart their own PA....

[clifffclaven]

cool! what kind of gigs are you playing where you need to cart that much PA? we rarely do gigs that require us to cart our own PA - we have only done 3 in the last 5 years. are the rooms huge? is it a cover band? i have always been curious about venue size/gig type for bands that cart their own PA....

our cover gig always carts PA.. out side we run 4 18s and 4 top cabs with 15/8/horn.. inside we run one top on each side usually, but always run the 18s. Some of the inside rooms we play require it.

[jgcable]

cool! what kind of gigs are you playing where you need to cart that much PA? we rarely do gigs that require us to cart our own PA - we have only done 3 in the last 5 years. are the rooms huge? is it a cover band? i have always been curious about venue size/gig type for bands that cart their own PA....

Hey Mark, we play at clubs that generally hold around 100-125 people tops. None of them have in house PA systems.
The last band I saw locally was at a place called Anthony D's in Milford, CT. I play there on open mic nights Tuesday nights. Anyway, the club holds around 75-100 people. They don't have their own PA system. The band I saw was called Streets (after the famous 80's metal rock club in New Rochelle, NY). They had a 10,000 watt system. Subs, crossovers, light show, smoke machines, probably $50K worth of gear easy for this tiny place. They were so loud I had to leave and I LOVE IT LOUD.

My band up this way is a cover band. We have about 8 different clubs booked in the area. None of them have house PA systems. Some of them won't even allow the band to start setting up until 8:00pm and we have to go on by 10 so its a mad dash to get everything set up. All that fun around around $300.00 if your lucky!

[jgcable]

Alot of local bands seem to have that new Bose active PA system with those tall poles with all the little speakers in them and the powered subwoofers. It literally looks like there is no PA on stage yet the sound is EVERYWHERE. Very cool system.

[markD]

interesting....there seems to be a disparaging difference between cover and original bands everywhere. the ONLY times we have had to cart a PA is when we were doing "cover" bars. like i said, we have only ever done that three times. this past saturday was one of them. WAY too much work!!!! i like showing up, putting my rig on a big-ass stage, playing to 300-1200 people for 30-45 minutes, meeting a former rockstar or two and going on my way, hahaha....

saturday night we played three 1 hour sets, mostly covers, had to set up the PA, run our own sound, hear people complain about how this or that is too loud or not loud enough....get the dumb requests from drunken douche-bags...ugh, i hate it!!! more power to those that do it every week - my hat is off to you!!! luckily we still get national shows about twice a month. i would NEVER do the "cover" shows if we weren't trying to help friends get their bar & grille established.

that little bose system is pretty cool for sure!!

[roodyrocker]

My band is a cover band. We used to use a different system but for the past year or so we've gone to a Presonus digital 16 channel board and active QSC 18" subs with active QSC 3 way tops. If its a small place we use one sub and one top box per side. If its larger we run two of each per side. For monitors we have 4 Behringer active monitors, 3 across the front stage and one for the drummer. We mic the drum set and amps as well as vocals of course. Micing everything gives a much better front mix and clearer than everyone just playing as loud as they want on stage. With the digital board and powered speakers we no longer have to bring in racks of power amps nor effects. All the effects are built in the digital board. We also have more PA gear if needed but we've done an outdoor gig with this system and it worked just fine so we feel comfortable doing just about any local size venue we have to play in. I also help a friend run sound/lights and with our combined systems we can cover some large stuff! We ran sound locally this past Saturday for StPatty's Day and used the big system. I'll post some pix for you guys later
Jgcable, I think you'll get much better sound running those powered speakers upfront and your power amp dedicated to monitors than what you were planning before. You shouldn't be running on the ragged edge anymore.
Btw, it's a rarity in our area to encounter small clubs that have house sound. Either the bands bring their own or have to hire someone/rent it.

Rudy

[jgcable]

My band is a cover band. We used to use a different system but for the past year or so we've gone to a Presonus digital 16 channel board and active QSC 18" subs with active QSC 3 way tops. If its a small place we use one sub and one top box per side. If its larger we run two of each per side. For monitors we have 4 Behringer active monitors, 3 across the front stage and one for the drummer. We mic the drum set and amps as well as vocals of course. Micing everything gives a much better front mix and clearer than everyone just playing as loud as they want on stage. With the digital board and powered speakers we no longer have to bring in racks of power amps nor effects. All the effects are built in the digital board. We also have more PA gear if needed but we've done an outdoor gig with this system and it worked just fine so we feel comfortable doing just about any local size venue we have to play in. I also help a friend run sound/lights and with our combined systems we can cover some large stuff! We ran sound locally this past Saturday for StPatty's Day and used the big system. I'll post some pix for you guys later
Jgcable, I think you'll get much better sound running those powered speakers upfront and your power amp dedicated to monitors than what you were planning before. You shouldn't be running on the ragged edge anymore.
Btw, it's a rarity in our area to encounter small clubs that have house sound. Either the bands bring their own or have to hire someone/rent it.

Rudy

yea, we are running the powered speakers up front. The monitors are being powered by our 900w poweramp. The drums have their own powered mixer and cabs. I would prefer to have everything on one mixer but we don't have enough inputs.

[roodyrocker]

yea, we are running the powered speakers up front. The monitors are being powered by our 900w poweramp. The drums have their own powered mixer and cabs. I would prefer to have everything on one mixer but we don't have enough inputs.

I know what you mean. The way you're running your power now though is much better than what you had originally planned. I think you'll be happy with the system you have. Other things to consider are gates for the drums as well as separate eq's for the mains and monitors. These will let you get rid of feedback and you can get these fairly cheap on E-Bay used

[jgcable]

I know what you mean. The way you're running your power now though is much better than what you had originally planned. I think you'll be happy with the system you have. Other things to consider are gates for the drums as well as separate eq's for the mains and monitors. These will let you get rid of feedback and you can get these fairly cheap on E-Bay used

I just picked up a Behringer rack mount compressor for the drums and I also have a dual 40 band rack mount EQ.