Need help on choosing a first tube amp

[roodyrocker]

I've been gigging quite a few amps in my band. These range from the Marshall Randy Rhoads to a Bad Cat 30w combo. There are many ways to go about it as each amp is different. And btw, the wattage of an amp doesn't tell you much about gigging situations. For example, my Randy Rhoads Marshall is 100w with no master volume. It is extremely loud! For gigging the only way I can use it is to not turn it up much AND run an attenuator. OTOH, my Bogners (Uberschall and Ecstasy) are also 100+W amps but they have great master volumes and are much easier to manage live. The Bad Cat combo is a 1x12 30W amp. Its a Class A amp and I use it live and it can more than crank out the loudness! The point is don't worry about the wattage of the amp. Rather, either get one which has a great master volume or get used to using an attenuator. Or, your other option is get an Axe Fx. The AXe Fx sounds great clean, thrash, metal, loud, or bedroom. I've gigged that as well. The soundman will love you with that thing As others have said above follow the soundman's advice and let the PA do the work for you. Your amp is really only going to have to be loud enough for your band to hear on stage. If its cranked too loud and giving the sound man too hot of a signal he'll ask you to turn down and rightfully so.

[guitarguy2237]

what is a class A amp, exactly?

[roodyrocker]

what is a class A amp, exactly?

Here is a quick explanation of a Class A vs. Class A/B amp: http://www.sweetwater.com/expert-cen.../d--01/12/2005
As examples, my Bad Cat Hot Cat 30 and 30R amps are Class A while my Marshall Randy Rhoads is a Class A/B amp. Others such as my Bogner Ecstasy can be ordered with an optional switch, which mine has, which allows you to run the amp in either Class A or A/B modes. You gotta love Reinhold Bogner

[Chief_CrazyTalk]

Amazingly true !! In fact, your two examples of Marshall greatness is the 2205 and 2210. I agree completely. I bought both to run stereo with two 1960B cabs. Even tho, they sounded mirror image. I could FEEL the 2210 much more. , So with that said. I sold the 2205 for another 2210. Same tubes..ect. That was a perfect match when A/B side by side. Without that A/B comparison. I'd never know the difference.

The consensus seems to think 100 wt..50 wt..is too loud for an apartment, bedroom..ect. Not if you gotta enough preamp gain..which is every amp made these days. My two Marshalls stacks have been my bedroom practice amp since 1996, and I could play Woodstock without a PA.

..and you dicovered this too? That is a good thing. You are becoming one with greatness ..Chief Crazy Ass!!! : )

LOL, I'll take that as a compliment bro! The 2205 (mine is actually the 4210 combo) always sounded so good to me, and is plenty loud, that I would have never believed the difference had I not heard it myself. I'd been looking for a 2210 when I ran across this all original, unmodded Super Bass head and had to have it. Yes these are both bedroom amps. My cabinets have never sounded so good til now.

Even cooler, this head has four outputs, so I believe I could run two more 16 ohm cabinets with this thing without rewiring. Hell yea!

[Devotee]

Either the Orange Dark Terror or signature Jim Root Terror look like real winners. From my research, both are pretty much one-channel gain monsters but sound awesome and are powerful enough for gigging. I'm considering getting one of these instead of a rack setup for the sheer portability and tone. A nice 2x12 cab and you're good to go.

[MetalHeadMat]

I'm going to get bashed out the wazoo for what I'm going to say, but I stick with it.

For your first tube amp/half stack, I'd recommend a Line ^ HD100 SpiderValve. I got one used for $500, (granted I had a cab), and it's extremely versatile and sounds pretty good imo.

If you're looking to spend a lot less, when I was in my thrash phase I got a Marshall VS100 half stack. It's a Valve State amp, one pre amp tube and solid state after that. Sounded very good for thrash, and for classic rock.

[skullfunkerry]

also, does either the tiny terror or dark terror have a seperate clean channel? i dont use it too often, but its nice to have

No, they don't. I back the volume off on my guitar to get a clean(ish) sound. I only need it for a few seconds per gig, so it doesn't really bother me!

Either the Orange Dark Terror or signature Jim Root Terror look like real winners. From my research, both are pretty much one-channel gain monsters but sound awesome and are powerful enough for gigging. I'm considering getting one of these instead of a rack setup for the sheer portability and tone. A nice 2x12 cab and you're good to go.

Absolutely - I've been gigging with Terrors for years now - first a Tiny Terror, now a Dark Terror. I use a pair of 1x12 cabs; I love seeing people smirk while I'm setting up, then watching their expression change when I start bending the windows


And MetalHeadMat's right too - some of the Line 6 stuff is really good - just steer cleaer of the *really* high-gain settings; in my experience they sound great at bedroom volume, but at gig level they get very tiresome very quickly

[Devotee]

skullfunkerry, you've got mail. Also, care to post some more pics of that that KX10 with the SLS headstock?

[Rich#6]

check out the Bugera line.

[jgcable]

Here is what you need live if you want to do it right for a thrash or metal band.

TUBE AMP HEAD must have:
At least 2 channels. It also MUST have an effects loop. Don't buy into the one channel and roll your volume down for clean thing. Its romantic but it simply isn't practical for live use. The reason you need a loop is so you can add a volume pedal or outboard processing for effects or most importantly.. solo or fill boost.
It would be nice for the amp to have 3 channels or 2 channels with an adjustable footswitchable solo boost feature.
the Peavey 5150-II has 3 channels. The Mesa Single Rectifier Solo Series has 2 channels but an adjustable footswitchable solo boost for either channel. Another nice choice is the Marshall TSL50 or TSL100. 3 channels, lots of features.
Make sure your amp has enough gain for anything you want to play. If the amp you find doesn't have enough gain then look for another amp.
There are plenty of amps that have enough gain for anything. Many will say you can add distortion or preamp pedals or overdrive pedals.
Stay away from them. Get an amp that rips your head off by itself and if you want to add some effects pedals or an effects processor you can.
The amp has to be a minimum of 50 watts and all tube. No hybrids. No modeling. TUBE. It can have diode clipping between the preamp stages but it must be tubes. How can you tell? Easy. If its a 50w tube amp it should have 4 or 5 or even 6 preamp tubes and 2 power tubes. If its a 100w tube amp it should have 4 or 5 or even 6 preamp tubes and 4 power tubes.

Most amps that are multi channel have a master volume. Make sure your new amp has one too.

Now.. on to cabinets...
For a loud thrash or metal band... look for a closed back cabinet. It must have 12" speakers in it. The more the better. The more you have the louder and more thump you will get. Celestion and Sheffield are great speakers. So are Mesa Black Shadows. I prefer Peavey Sheffields or Celestion T75's but lots of players like Celestion Vintage 30's. I think the V30's are a little too "papery" sounding. They sizzle a little too much and add a little too much grainyness to the guitar tone.
I would suggest a stock closed back 4 x 12 cab. Brands like Peavey, Carvin, Marshall, Randall, Mesa are all good. It can be a slant cab or a straight bottom. If it has casters on it all the better and makes it easy to carry. BTW... I fit a full half stack in the back seat of my Dodge Neon so don't worry about the size. Just stay away from oversized 4 x 12 cabs. They won't fit in a compact car.
Get a good set of instrument cables, a good SPEAKER cable and get rippin bro.

[guitarguy2237]

Here is what you need live if you want to do it right for a thrash or metal band.

TUBE AMP HEAD must have:
At least 2 channels. It also MUST have an effects loop. Don't buy into the one channel and roll your volume down for clean thing. Its romantic but it simply isn't practical for live use. The reason you need a loop is so you can add a volume pedal or outboard processing for effects or most importantly.. solo or fill boost.
It would be nice for the amp to have 3 channels or 2 channels with an adjustable footswitchable solo boost feature.
the Peavey 5150-II has 3 channels. The Mesa Single Rectifier Solo Series has 2 channels but an adjustable footswitchable solo boost for either channel. Another nice choice is the Marshall TSL50 or TSL100. 3 channels, lots of features.
Make sure your amp has enough gain for anything you want to play. If the amp you find doesn't have enough gain then look for another amp.
There are plenty of amps that have enough gain for anything. Many will say you can add distortion or preamp pedals or overdrive pedals.
Stay away from them. Get an amp that rips your head off by itself and if you want to add some effects pedals or an effects processor you can.
The amp has to be a minimum of 50 watts and all tube. No hybrids. No modeling. TUBE. It can have diode clipping between the preamp stages but it must be tubes. How can you tell? Easy. If its a 50w tube amp it should have 4 or 5 or even 6 preamp tubes and 2 power tubes. If its a 100w tube amp it should have 4 or 5 or even 6 preamp tubes and 4 power tubes.

Most amps that are multi channel have a master volume. Make sure your new amp has one too.

Now.. on to cabinets...
For a loud thrash or metal band... look for a closed back cabinet. It must have 12" speakers in it. The more the better. The more you have the louder and more thump you will get. Celestion and Sheffield are great speakers. So are Mesa Black Shadows. I prefer Peavey Sheffields or Celestion T75's but lots of players like Celestion Vintage 30's. I think the V30's are a little too "papery" sounding. They sizzle a little too much and add a little too much grainyness to the guitar tone.
I would suggest a stock closed back 4 x 12 cab. Brands like Peavey, Carvin, Marshall, Randall, Mesa are all good. It can be a slant cab or a straight bottom. If it has casters on it all the better and makes it easy to carry. BTW... I fit a full half stack in the back seat of my Dodge Neon so don't worry about the size. Just stay away from oversized 4 x 12 cabs. They won't fit in a compact car.
Get a good set of instrument cables, a good SPEAKER cable and get rippin bro.

This, I think is the best advice ive had thus far,i reall appericate it,everyone. right now im looking at getting a peavey 5150-II head with a marshall 4x12, plus my homeade pedalboard.

[Hellbat]

Thats the kind of advice you get from someone who hasn't not been in a band for 20 years....

[Devotee]

...or you could get a Peavey 6505+ 112 combo...

[skullfunkerry]

Thats the kind of advice you get from someone who hasn't not been in a band for 20 years....

I'd have to agree... I've been gigging tiny amps for years now, and I have no problems with either turning the volume down for a clean sound (although I admit, if you've got a lot of clean sections then it takes a bit of getting used to. Works okay for Paul Gilbert though). I have no problems with volume either, when we do gigs on backline only.

Devotee - I've just sent you a reply. And yes, I'll sort out some photos of the KVX10 soon

[jgcable]

I'd have to agree... I've been gigging tiny amps for years now, and I have no problems with either turning the volume down for a clean sound (although I admit, if you've got a lot of clean sections then it takes a bit of getting used to. Works okay for Paul Gilbert though). I have no problems with volume either, when we do gigs on backline only.

Devotee - I've just sent you a reply. And yes, I'll sort out some photos of the KVX10 soon

Hey Hellbat.... skullfunkerry doesn't get it!!!

So.. let me clear the air and enlighten this newb...

I have NEVER not been in a metal band since I was 16 years old. Thats 34 years of consistant gigging METAL if you do the math. I have had every rig on the planet, played venues from 45 people to 4500 people, have toured, auditioned for Ozzy... blah blah blah....

The original poster mentioned he is looking at a 5150 head and a Marshall 4 x 12 cab. PERFECT. For the music he wants to play live that is the perfect rig. I have never heard a 5150 half stack live that didn't sound killer.