Need help on choosing a first tube amp

[jgcable]

Thats the kind of advice you get from someone who hasn't not been in a band for 20 years....

Its 34 years bro!

[Rsmacker]

I have NEVER not been in a metal band since I was 16 years old. Thats 34 years of consistant gigging METAL if you do the math. I have had every rig on the planet, played venues from 45 people to 4500 people, have toured, auditioned for Ozzy... blah blah blah....

The original poster mentioned he is looking at a 5150 head and a Marshall 4 x 12 cab. PERFECT. For the music he wants to play live that is the perfect rig. I have never heard a 5150 half stack live that didn't sound killer.

Um, when are you touring the UK next? Who with?

Do you think those 34 years in front of loud amplifiers has coloured your judgement? I SAID, DO YOU THINK THOSE 34 YEARS...

You want to know the world's shittiest sound? Well, there's actually 4.

1. Someone who has not been playing guitar for very long* (like, perhaps our OP here?), in a room not much bigger than my downstairs shit-house, winding the living crap out of a tasty valve amp through a 4x12. We all know that proper valve amps have to be driven hard to really get the best out of them, and unfortunately, there are few opportunities to do that when you are starting out. Just when you think it's great, the rest of the band kick in...and 5 seconds later the venue owner (probably a pub, not Wembley Stadium) is running over telling the band there is no fucking way they can be doing that. The aforementioned shitty sound is the sound of the guitarist's bottom lip hitting the floor as he realises he's going to be playing his superb valve amp, at 20% of its optimum, while he sticks a borrowed Boss ME5 through it to get a dirty sound.

This is why the 50w JCM800 (now there's a proper thrash amp for you) was more popular than the 100w, and even then it was still ear-splitting.

2. The sound of his band-mates pissing themselves with laughter.

3. The sound of someone who isn't Paul Gilbert, but thinks he is nearly there, playing a massive amp at No 11. Or someone playing "Paranoid" badly, excessively loudly. Excruciating. This is what I will be subjected to for Eternity in Hell - really fat, meaty sounding chugs to get my attention...followed by a spasticated riff that sounds like it's been mauled by a Polar Bear.

4. The sound of a whining cunt who can't come to band practice because his Mum's car is knackered and he can't fit his Stack of Doom in any other vehicle.

He's not joining Exodus, he'd be better served getting a smaller, cheaper set-up and then when he's proficient, and his band haven't split up due to some of them wanting to play Carcass, and the others wanting to do "Stairway to Fucking Heaven", moving on to something a bit beefier.


* I once sold a JCM900 and a 4x12 to someone who had recently taken up playing guitar. (Like, as in, "the day I sold him that amp and a guitar"). He used to sit in his garden, Marshall inside, windows open, and make elephant noises all afternoon. Well, he did for 2 days before the council threatened to evict him. I bought it all back off him a fortnight later minus 30%. An expensive lesson for him, which would have been better spent on guitar lessons.

[jgcable]

Um, when are you touring the UK next? Who with?

Do you think those 34 years in front of loud amplifiers has coloured your judgement? I SAID, DO YOU THINK THOSE 34 YEARS...

You want to know the world's shittiest sound? Well, there's actually 4.

1. Someone who has not been playing guitar for very long* (like, perhaps our OP here?), in a room not much bigger than my downstairs shit-house, winding the living crap out of a tasty valve amp through a 4x12. We all know that proper valve amps have to be driven hard to really get the best out of them, and unfortunately, there are few opportunities to do that when you are starting out. Just when you think it's great, the rest of the band kick in...and 5 seconds later the venue owner (probably a pub, not Wembley Stadium) is running over telling the band there is no fucking way they can be doing that. The aforementioned shitty sound is the sound of the guitarist's bottom lip hitting the floor as he realises he's going to be playing his superb valve amp, at 20% of its optimum, while he sticks a borrowed Boss ME5 through it to get a dirty sound.

This is why the 50w JCM800 (now there's a proper thrash amp for you) was more popular than the 100w, and even then it was still ear-splitting.

2. The sound of his band-mates pissing themselves with laughter.

3. The sound of someone who isn't Paul Gilbert, but thinks he is nearly there, playing a massive amp at No 11. Or someone playing "Paranoid" badly, excessively loudly. Excruciating. This is what I will be subjected to for Eternity in Hell - really fat, meaty sounding chugs to get my attention...followed by a spasticated riff that sounds like it's been mauled by a Polar Bear.

4. The sound of a whining cunt who can't come to band practice because his Mum's car is knackered and he can't fit his Stack of Doom in any other vehicle.

He's not joining Exodus, he'd be better served getting a smaller, cheaper set-up and then when he's proficient, and his band haven't split up due to some of them wanting to play Carcass, and the others wanting to do "Stairway to Fucking Heaven", moving on to something a bit beefier.


* I once sold a JCM900 and a 4x12 to someone who had recently taken up playing guitar. (Like, as in, "the day I sold him that amp and a guitar"). He used to sit in his garden, Marshall inside, windows open, and make elephant noises all afternoon. Well, he did for 2 days before the council threatened to evict him. I bought it all back off him a fortnight later minus 30%. An expensive lesson for him, which would have been better spent on guitar lessons.

Possibly one of the best, most accurate, funniest replies ever!!! Awesome.

[guitarguy2237]

Sooo dont get a giant ass amplifier. or i wont be able to use it half the time. got it.

[Rsmacker]

Well, I guess we're making assumptions about your age, experience, disposable income and playing ability. I am, anyway!
The suggestion of a 5150 and a 4x12 would do the trick for a wily old pro (oo-er!) like JGCable, absolutely, but if you are...how to say this diplomatically...um, "full of youthful promise" and think that a good setlist consists of Paranoid, Black Dog, Wishing Well, Creeping Death and Mouth for War, well, I'd suggest that you might be getting too much bang for your buck.
It's the reason I won't buy a Hayabusa - how can I possibly trundle along at 70mph max on a bike capable of >200mph? I'd feel cheated every time I got it even warmed up, it'd be a waste of my money, total overkill.

This is all assuming you can get a 5150 AND a 4x12 for your budget, less than $800. Is this possible over there? I know you'd be pushed to get that for £800 here.

If you got a combo, you can always get a 2x12 extension cab or similar later on if you really do have problems hearing yourself. AdRock's tip back there about aiming your backline speaker at you is definitely one to take heed of. Plus you can always ask your friendly, smiley PA guy to give you a load more of your own guitar back through the wedge right in front of you. Buy him a drink and tell him how great he is too.

[Rsmacker]

what is a class A amp, exactly?

It's an amplifier you can hide Cocaine inside.

[guitarguy2237]

Well, I guess we're making assumptions about your age, experience, disposable income and playing ability. I am, anyway!
The suggestion of a 5150 and a 4x12 would do the trick for a wily old pro (oo-er!) like JGCable, absolutely, but if you are...how to say this diplomatically...um, "full of youthful promise" and think that a good setlist consists of Paranoid, Black Dog, Wishing Well, Creeping Death and Mouth for War, well, I'd suggest that you might be getting too much bang for your buck.
It's the reason I won't buy a Hayabusa - how can I possibly trundle along at 70mph max on a bike capable of >200mph? I'd feel cheated every time I got it even warmed up, it'd be a waste of my money, total overkill.

This is all assuming you can get a 5150 AND a 4x12 for your budget, less than $800. Is this possible over there? I know you'd be pushed to get that for £800 here.

If you got a combo, you can always get a 2x12 extension cab or similar later on if you really do have problems hearing yourself. AdRock's tip back there about aiming your backline speaker at you is definitely one to take heed of. Plus you can always ask your friendly, smiley PA guy to give you a load more of your own guitar back through the wedge right in front of you. Buy him a drink and tell him how great he is too.

I've been playing for a year and a half,16 years old. and that is a god awful set list. most people who've heard me think i'm decent. I've got a load of stuff work on though

[Chief_CrazyTalk]

I've been playing for a year and a half,16 years old. and that is a god awful set list. most people who've heard me think i'm decent. I've got a load of stuff work on though

I was you once, actually I was 17 when I'd saved up $2k for a good amp. I almost bought a red 1970 100W Super Lead full stack. I'm sure if I'd bought it then, I'd have been selling it a minute later, but I wish I'd bought it now! I ended up ordering a Mk III half stack from Boogie. Way more than a newb like me needed but that amp served me well for years. What a fancy practice amp!

Don't sweat the small stuff. Get a good sounding tube amp within your budget and enjoy the ride. Rock on young dude!

[guitarguy2237]

By the way, will these amps all work in eurpoe, i know the voltages are different in europe than america,im moving to germany soon.

[skullfunkerry]

By the way, will these amps all work in eurpoe, i know the voltages are different in europe than america,im moving to germany soon.

Providing it's set for 220/240V, all you'll need to change will be the plug itself.

Don't sweat the small stuff. Get a good sounding tube amp within your budget and enjoy the ride. Rock on young dude!

This is the best advice so far

[AdRock]

Sooo dont get a giant ass amplifier. or i wont be able to use it half the time. got it.

God I hope you're being serious. If so, you have just understood what millions of guitar players have absolutely no idea about. Good job.

[xenophobe]

So you have no problem cutting through everything with this setup?

I ordered the Dark Terror and the 1x12 cab... is it enough to cut through double bass drums with 2 1x12s? If that's a yes, I'm ordering a second 1x12. lol

Absolutely - I've been gigging with Terrors for years now - first a Tiny Terror, now a Dark Terror. I use a pair of 1x12 cabs; I love seeing people smirk while I'm setting up, then watching their expression change when I start bending the windows

[veemagic]

By the way, will these amps all work in eurpoe, i know the voltages are different in europe than america,im moving to germany soon.

If this is the case then you may want to wait until your there, or be careful of what you get because getting it to Germany may be a hassle. I guesing a half stack will cost more than half of your budget just to ship it to Germany.

[Spivonious]

Just remember that Watts = headroom, not volume. Most tube amps can pump out some serious decibels. The average guitar speaker puts out 100dB@1m for every Watt of power. That means hearing damage levels with 3W.

What you need Watts for is headroom. When you pluck the string, the volume is very high for a split second. If the amp doesn't have the power to handle this momentary increase, you get unwanted distortion and flubbiness. A 100W amp will give you headroom to spare. BUT, most of the tube "tone" comes from a slight overdriving of the power amp section. With 100W of headroom, you'll need to really crank the amp to get that happening.

My advice, especially since you aren't currently in a band, is to get something in the 25-50W range.

Now, what to get? Since you say thrash with some classic rock, I'm leaning towards a Marshall JCM900 with an overdrive pedal, or perhaps something Peavey (JSX?), B-52 (AT-100), or Genz Benz (El Diablo 60).

While it's cool to have a half stack on the stage, they're freakin' heavy and you won't need the added volume ever. Invest in a nice 2x12 cabinet (doesn't have to match the amp) and get a stand for it to put the speakers near ear level.

I would stay away from combo amps. I've had bad luck with gigging them, as the amp doesn't like all of the vibration that comes from being in the same compartment as speakers pushing out 150dB.


edit - oh, and if you're going to Europe, make sure the amp has a voltage switch on it (120/240) or you'll fry your amp. It might be better to wait until you get there.

edit2 - a Class A amplifier works in a different way eletrically than the more common Class AB amplifier. Wikipedia can fill you in if you're interested. Just remember that Class A is much less efficient (i.e. runs hotter), but can give a warmer sound (think Vox AC versus Marshall JCM).

Remember that a lot of amp makers advertise their amps as Class A, but they're really not. It's become a marketing term.

[guitarguy2237]

God I hope you're being serious. If so, you have just understood what millions of guitar players have absolutely no idea about. Good job.

Dead serious my freind.