Need More Guitar in The Monitor

[Big Al]

I have a Mesa Rectifier 4X12 cabinet with the V30 speakers and I believe it is very directional. If I step away from the center of the cabinet, I cannot hear the upper mids very well. Playing out, this can cause a problem. For whatever reason (sound guy) some nights I cannot hear myself through the monitors so I have to retreat back to standing in front of my amp in order to hear myself. I have tried altering my typical EQ on the amp, which does help in the mix but if there is not enough of me in the monitor, I am back to standing in front of my amp. I also will gradually increase my stage volume throughout the night but then I usually get reduced in the monitors from the sound guy.
I would like to hear (huh) what you guys do to make sure you can hear yourselves but would also like to find out if another idea is feasible. Are there other speakers that would have a better dispersion angle for upper mids? It is a slant cab and I thought I could just replace the top speakers with ones with a wider dispersion angle and increase my range. If so, what speakers would I need to look into?

[AdRock]

Try getting the cab up off the floor. Set it up on a pair of chairs, egg crates, etc. Also put it at side stage facing across the stage. That way you are always in front of it. The other benefit is the less amps pointed toward the crowd the better the foh sound will usually be.

Also, if you know someone with a 212 cab on the smaller side like the mesa or a car in legacy see if you can borrow it for a gig. The legacy and the mesa both still have the v30's you're used to. Put the cab in front of yoou and lean it back like a monitor and throw a mic on it. Then if you need more volume you can turn it up with shooting right into the faces of the crowd.

[markD]

you won't like this suggestion, but it is what i do to all of my 4x12s. cut the back in half. that will allow more of the sound to spread around your rig and it will improve your mids. you bass will loosen a little, but that gives more room for the bassist to fill their spot. if you don't want to ruin the back of your cab, go to home depot and buy some 3/4" baltic birch, cut it to half the size of the back of your cab, paint it flat black, mount a jack and bolt it on. you should be very pleased.

[roodyrocker]

I help run sound with a friend and can tell thI help run sound with a friend and can tell you that turning up gradually during the night is a no no. Your sound man is likely having to turn you down through the FOH as well as your monitor. You may be clipping the signal at the board when you do that so he HAS to turn you down. It also changes your overall stage volume and leads to more problems. One of my amps is a Mesa with 4x12 and V30's like you describe. And I like the sound but yes, depending where you move on stage you may lose it. I would suggest two things. One is my guess is the band's stage volume is too loud to begin with so your ears are fatiguing. And two, get In Ear Monitors.at turning up gradually during the night is a no no. Your sound man is likely have to turn you down through the FOH as well as your monitor. You may be clipping the signal at the board when you do that so he HAS to turn you down. It also changes your overall stage volume and leads to more problems. One of my amps is a Mesa with 4x12 and V30's like you describe. And I like the sound but yes, depending where you move on stage you may lose it. I would suggest two things. One is my guess is the band's stage volume is too loud to begin with so your ears are fatiguing. And two, get In Ear Monitors. In Ears let you move anywhere you like and you won't get any loss of volume. I use them and they're not cheap but they work great and save your hearing to boot. Just make sure you get custom molded ear buds made. The generic ones supplied with the units don't seal well but they fit everybody. This way you keep your tone, assuming you like the sound of that cab, and you'll hear everything you want on stage

[Big Al]

Thanks for the suggestions! I have thought about finding one of the Mesa Wedge 2x12 and stick on the front of the stage. After seeing the used prices (discountinued) I dropped that idea. I will give turning my amp facing across the stage a try. Also, may try the half back deal, good excuse for a quick project. I have two 4x12 mesa cabs that I could try at different angles but that is just more to carry and often stage space is limited.
Roody- you are correct, I should know better than to mess with my volume. In fact the last outing I started out louder than usual in hopes that could hear myself and we do end up playing too loud.
In ear may be the way to go. I honestly know nothing about them.

[markD]

in-ears are nice, but not every venue can accommodate them. keep that in mind before you spend the money. if you DO decide to go for IEMs, you can't skimp. pay for good ones. another option is to partially insert ear plugs to help filter out some of the "noise" from the high-end (cymbals, treble from the guitar, etc.).

[toejam]

The legacy and the mesa both still have the v30's you're used to.

Not really. Mesa's V30s are actually voiced differently and specifically for them.

[roodyrocker]

If In Ears are not a viable option I would start by having everyone in the band turn down. Assuming you have a good sound man, they should be able to give every band member what they want to hear through their monitors on stage. When we run sound for other bands we spend a considerable amount of time ringing out monitors before the band even gets there. We knock out any ringing/feedback problems from the vocal mics. If someone wants more whatever in their monitor we can add it easily without causing problems. I know that often how hard the drummer hits sort of dictates how loud you have to turn up but a lot of times bands play with just entirely too much stage volume. My own band has been guilty of that in the past. At some point your ears just fatigue and everything sounds like a jumbled mess. Try having everyone turn down as the cheapest, easiest first step

[Axegrinder87]

My sound man knows to keep me out of the monitor, that's what my amp's for. Only thing in my monitor is my rhythm guitarist, and snare drum. Having higher stage volume may decrease FOH quality, but the people who stand in front of me at the stage do so so they can hear ME

Don't turn your cab sideways. It looks lame, and it'll piss off your band. Then we'll have 3 more people posting about how to get more "me" in the monitor, cause you're shoving some Mesa 412 in their face.

[Hellbat]

How about getting a small, cheap powered monitor (say a mackie SRM150) and throwing a second mic on the cab just feeding the mackie. Then you can have the monitor firing from the front at an angle across the stage increasing your coverage.

In ears probably are the best solution though as has been said.

[tomanyjacksons]

Carvin makes some nice in-ear-monitors, Priced right.

[roodyrocker]

I disagree about putting your own guitar in your own monitor. If you need to hear it there is nothing wrong with adding it in there. In fact, there is one club where stage space is so small that we run both guitar players direct from modelers into the PA, no amp at all on stage. They hear their guitars through their own wedge monitors in front of them. I've done the same thing in the past running my Axe Fx. Alex Lifeson of Rush has been running his amp into Palmer DI boxes to FOH for a few years now too. He has no live guitar cabs on stage. Again, he and the band hear the guitar through their monitors. Nothing wrong with doing it that way at all.

[AdRock]

My sound man knows to keep me out of the monitor, that's what my amp's for. Only thing in my monitor is my rhythm guitarist, and snare drum. Having higher stage volume may decrease FOH quality, but the people who stand in front of me at the stage do so so they can hear ME

Don't turn your cab sideways. It looks lame, and it'll piss off your band. Then we'll have 3 more people posting about how to get more "me" in the monitor, cause you're shoving some Mesa 412 in their face.

My sound man side is coming out here.

Not everyone standing in front of you is there just to hear you. Deflate that ego a little. And turning the amp for a side wash isn't gay. Maybe I hold the people that paid to come see my band in too high a regard, but they paid money to come see the show so I feel its in the bands best interest to do what I can to make it sound as good as possible for them.

I've never once heard someone say "That band was great, but did you see where the guitar cabs were? That's gay.".

[Big Al]

Thanks for the suggestions. I will try them next weekend. I will also try to stress bring all the levels down. If this does not work, I may seriously look into the IEM.

What about the sound dispersion of certain speakers? I have been looking for specifications/datasheets on the Mesa V30 with no luck. I have a 5150 half stack that I use at our practice place, I could bring it to the next show or maybe just the cabinet and see if that works any better.

[AdRock]

Pretty much all 412's are directional. I've never experienced one that wasn't. A slant cab is at least 2 directions but even they're still really directional.

One other thing I just remembered. When I was the house engineer at a.local club a guitar player came through with a neat trick. He like to crank his Marshall 412 cab, so he bought an empty 412 real cheap and pretty much cut the front off of it. He thenmounted a piece of plywood on the back, and 2 two by fours on the bottom. Then he covered the back plywood with carpet. So he had a full size amp blocker that was basically a foax half stack. It worked great and from straight ahead it just looked like a cab sitting up there. I wish I had gotten a pic of it.