JCM800 head + which pedal(s) for 80's Thrash?

[Newc]

VE212 with their British 12s. Not sure if they're supposed to be Celestion copies.

[Cygnus X1]

VE212 with their British 12s. Not sure if they're supposed to be Celestion copies.

If those are anything like "V" series they are going to be a problem for thrash.

[Shawn Lutz]

SD1 or TS9 should be winners here

[jgcable]

Funny thing is I think the JCM800 that you have is one of those amps that every guitar player wants and that hardly any guitar players actually use. Back in the 80's it was one of the only choices (although the Mesa Rectifiers were the metal amps to have back in those days... no pedals needed. Just plug in and destroy things) I had several JCM800's over the years. Was never happy with a stock one and pedals. Once I got the amp modded... that was a different story. For medium gain stuff, its a great amp. For high gain.. not so good. Not stock anyway. I then stumbled on the 2210 and that was that. The 2210 needs nothing but a guitar cord, a guitar and a player.

[plon]

I had a 4211 for a while (2210 in combo form) ran it through a 4X12 and it could hit the thrash zone easily without a boost. I now have a JVM 210H and this amp replicates the 2210 using the clean/crunch channel in red mode and while I had a JCM 900 4500 DR here that I was re-tubing, I was even able to dial that amps tone in very closely, comparing side by side using the JVM overdrive channel in green mode gain all the way up then backed off a hair. The orange mode in the overdrive channel will have enough gain at 12 o'clock for even the heaviest of metal and the red mode is just plain silly. All this said, The JVM 210H is probably all the Marshall tones you could want in one amp plugged straight, no pedals. You can get them for around $850.00 on a good day.

[Newc]

If those are anything like "V" series they are going to be a problem for thrash.

They're no longer shown on the site (figures) but at the tim eit was part of their MTS series, which was "Metal Tube Series" IIRC. Just before they brought back the X100B and they were just starting the Vai Legacy stuff.

SD1 or TS9 should be winners here

SD1 sounds good, but going by the TS9 model in the M13, and from what I've read, it generates a distorted tone and passes a clean signal at the same time, and I'm not seeing how that's going to work, unless you're supposed to have the amp's Gain maxed so the clean signal isn't clean?

Funny thing is I think the JCM800 that you have is one of those amps that every guitar player wants and that hardly any guitar players actually use.

That's what I'm beginning to think as well.

Back in the 80's it was one of the only choices (although the Mesa Rectifiers were the metal amps to have back in those days... no pedals needed. Just plug in and destroy things)

Well, maybe in the late 80s (88/89), but IIRC the Rec/Dual Rec/Triple Rec didn't really hit big until the 90s. I know Hetfield was using one for Puppets, but at the time Mesa/Boogie was still associated more with Santana, at least from what I recall of early-90s Guitar magazine articles relating to Metallica.
I know M/B have always focused on rectifier-based distortion, and it was one of the things many Marshall players cited as not liking about the M/B stuff, hence they never pursued it. It didn't give a "familiar" distortion sound. Hetfield's MarkIIC was "the best kept secret in Thrash" for a few years, and they could be had cheap (saw a BIN of $650 for a combo back in about '97/98). Once word got out in early 2000/2001 that he used that model for Puppets, the prices doubled. Looking just this minute on Ebay, I see a Mark IIC head (as seen in that pic posted a while back of Hetfield with the white King V) and 2x12 with an asking price of $3500.

I had a 4211 for a while (2210 in combo form) ran it through a 4X12 and it could hit the thrash zone easily without a boost. I now have a JVM 210H and this amp replicates the 2210 using the clean/crunch channel in red mode and while I had a JCM 900 4500 DR here that I was re-tubing, I was even able to dial that amps tone in very closely, comparing side by side using the JVM overdrive channel in green mode gain all the way up then backed off a hair. The orange mode in the overdrive channel will have enough gain at 12 o'clock for even the heaviest of metal and the red mode is just plain silly. All this said, The JVM 210H is probably all the Marshall tones you could want in one amp plugged straight, no pedals. You can get them for around $850.00 on a good day.

I paid $850 for mine. Sounds like I jumped a bit too soon.


But then again, as I said, it does get good sounds. Vintage 80s Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, and even Kill Em All and Ride The Lightning (with pedals). I understand I can cut down on my setup time and how much shit I gotta lug around by getting a head that "does everything better" - I mean, that's why these amps exist, and I'm usually the first one to downplay "vintage stuff for the sake of being vintage" in favor of the new stuff that improves on the old stuff. But, it is what it is. It's not like I'm stuck with it forever and it's not like I can't buy another head and use this one for the stuff it does better, or have it modded, or whatever.

Then again, there's no law that says I can't shlep this out to a gig and do what I wanna do with it, either.
It'll work just fine for my plans.

[jgcable]

I agree with Plon. That's a great sounding high gain Marshall. I heard one live recently and it sounded fantastic.

[Cygnus X1]

I just thought of something since we're going back to the amp.
90's Laney AOR Series amps don't cost too much when you can find them.
They have loads of that gain and are tight for thrash.

Might want to see if you can find one to try.

[dimobag]

I can get really good METAL sound/tone by using Orange micro TERROR and Modtone Fuzzer, not THRASH but METAL.

[slayer]

VE212 with their British 12s. Not sure if they're supposed to be Celestion copies.

Is that a closed back cab? I have a Carvin MTS 3212 2x12 combo with those speakers and the combo is open back. The speakers are 100 watt a piece. They are very loud, but lack some low/mids and bass in the combo at least. Very strong in the upper mids and treble. I bet they would be better suited for a closed back 4x12.

[Newc]

Open back cab, rated at 300w (according to the sheet that came with it). IIRC the site at the time stated the MTS-series 3212 was the combo form of the VE212. I was looking at getting the 3212 at the time, but since I had just picked up my Fender RocPro1000 head, decided to save a few bucks. Plus if the head went out, I'd still have the cab without lugging around a dead-head combo and external head (done that before), so there was also the overall size issue in that.

With the Fender head, I used to get a fair amount of low end, since it was difficult to find a bassist for the band I was in at the time, I'd run a bass-heavy signal which worked well with the drummer's 48" deep kicks (Eric Carr setup). I did use the head for most of the tone live, and my rack stuff for effects (Chorus, delay/reverb).

Gonna see if I can set up the Fender head this weekend and do some side-by-side comparisons.



Regarding the "THRASH tone/METAL tone" thing - For me, "Metal" is Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Black Sabbath, Ozzy, etc. It's short for "Heavy Metal". Everything else has a prefix that separates it - Thrash Metal, Speed Metal, Death Metal, Gnu Metal, Sludge Metal, etc etc etc - especially where there are differences in guitar tones, so when you say you're getting good "Metal" tones with an Orange (which I associate with the old 70s Sabbath videos from that TV show everyone used to be on in England) and a pedal that has anything relating to "Fuzz" in the name, I'm not expecting Thrash, Speed, or Death tones, and probably not even Number Of The Beast. Maybe Paranoid, or other early Sabbath.
While I'm a huge Sabbath fan, I'm not looking for Sabbath because those tones tend to flub out when doing Four Horsemen or Creeping Death.

[dimobag]

METAL is to me, like it seems to you, Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath, Ozzy and Dio. Thrash is for starters big four plus many more. It seems that thrash sound is based on Marshall head and some good distortion. Fuzz pedals are funny because some of thrash players have started with them, Scott Ian and Dime for example. I don´t know about Scott but Dime tweaked his sound all ways with EQ pedal. Newer for get Kerry Marshall head and MXR 10-EQ.

[zeegler]

I just thought of something since we're going back to the amp.
90's Laney AOR Series amps don't cost too much when you can find them.
They have loads of that gain and are tight for thrash.

Might want to see if you can find one to try.

I hear this all the time Cyg, and went out and got one based on that. It was a 100 watt 6 knobber, supposedly the closest to a JCM 800. I can't stress enough how much of a piece of shit that thing was. It sounded horrible.

[slayer]

I started a new post but nobody has posted to it but the newer Peavey Butcher sounds very much like a JCM 800 and has 2 channels. They tout it as a loud stadium rock amp and it sounds like it. I imagine pushed with the right pedal and maybe an EQ in the loop it could be a great thrash amp. For the price of them new though, I have been afraid to take a chance on one and not many used out there. Not sure of how the originals are?

[Cygnus X1]

I hear this all the time Cyg, and went out and got one based on that. It was a 100 watt 6 knobber, supposedly the closest to a JCM 800. I can't stress enough how much of a piece of shit that thing was. It sounded horrible.

Meh, try the 8 knob version?



I just had one here for maintenance and although it is a limited range...I liked what it did.