Volume pedal in the effects loop? Any of you do this?

[PowerTube]

I've been reading about a "trick" you can do where you put a volume pedal (or any pedal that can cut volume to zero) in the effects loop, and it acts as a form of attenuator. Here's a video of this being done on a 100-watt Splawn:

Have any of you done this? if so, what do you think? If it works like people say it does, that'll ease my mind a bit about getting a Splawn.

[micha]

I don't get the "trick" to be honest...
Would you mind explaining?

I use a "minus booster" (mainly a pot with a cap to reduce frequency loss) in the loop to get another mastervolume for solos, but I'd not consider this a trick.
Seems like I didn't get it...

[PowerTube]

Well, it seems to- be a "poor man's attenuator" of sorts. Supposedly, you can crank the amp's master volume, but keep it limited with the volume in the loop.

[lefty]

Well, it seems to- be a "poor man's attenuator" of sorts. Supposedly, you can crank the amp's master volume, but keep it limited with the volume in the loop.

Yah, Ive done this with my Splawn and it works as intended. That being said, when I
want to play at lower volumes, I prefer to use an attenuator. Seems to give everything
a more compressed tone. I like it, but not everyone else does. I believe the newer Splawns
have the loop volume control as standard equipment, but you'd have to check. I'd say if
you're looking at a newer B+ gain version, you wouldn't need the loop volume control
or an attenuator...

[micha]

Ah, some sort of power-soak.
Yes this should be working, but I never tried a comparison. We're unreasonably loud anyway during rehearsal...
Hard to judge the effect on youtube.

But it's always amazing to see how creative people get to make their 100W amp sound like a 20 watter.
The legend says Paul Gilbert used a Toaster back in the 80s...

Somehow hard to believe all this micro-amps, pretty much all brands release today, would be worthless if they were clever enough to put a 2$ pot in the loop of their regular sized amps.

[lefty]

Ah, some sort of power-soak.
Yes this should be working, but I never tried a comparison. We're unreasonably loud anyway during rehearsal...
Hard to judge the effect on youtube.

But it's always amazing to see how creative people get to make their 100W amp sound like a 20 watter.
The legend says Paul Gilbert used a Toaster back in the 80s...

Somehow hard to believe all this micro-amps, pretty much all brands release today, would be worthless if they were clever enough to put a 2$ pot in the loop of their regular sized amps.

Well, the lunchbox amps are also smaller, lighter and less
expensive, so there's more going on than volume. That
being said, I like using an attenuator with my mini amps too!

And there are guys on this very board who would say mini amps
ARE worthless anyway!

[jgcable]

An attenuator is like putting a blanket over your amp. Yuck... Also.. lunchbox amps/mini amps/tiny amps/micro amps are all amps designed for pussies who can't handle real amps. They do look really nice on the nightstand next to the bed which is where most of them would reside. I have a el-cheapo Fender G-Dec 3 that would shit all over any of these little amps at bedroom volumes in regard to real guitar tone. Take that sucka's.....
A volume pedal in the loop is the way to go but it needs to be designed to work in the loop and it must have a min-max setting on it if you are going to use it for solo boost. I use the Bad Horsie Lil Alligator for my Mesa Boogie Single Rectifier half stack (which is a real full size mans amp btw...)

[jgcable]

Aint I neat?

[micha]

And there are guys on this very board who would say mini amps
ARE worthless anyway!

Regardless of which subject you choose, there's always a guy on this very board who says it's worthless...

[markD]

lunchbox amps/mini amps/tiny amps/micro amps are all amps designed for pussies who can't handle real amps. They do look really nice on the nightstand next to the bed which is where most of them would reside. I have a el-cheapo Fender G-Dec 3 that would shit all over any of these little amps at bedroom volumes in regard to real guitar tone. Take that sucka's..

john, we usually agree about amps since we are both out there doing it "for real", but in this case I have to disagree. bigger is not always better. many of the lunchbox amps are very usable and have their place in a serious guitarists stable. with the proliferation of smaller studios that are replacing many of the large commercial studios, I find doing sessions with a 100 watt half stack to be impossible. this is where it is nice to have a quality, tube lunchbox amp. with options from mesa, carvin, engl, orange, and most other serious amp companies it is time to consider these as more than "amps for pussies".

I did a session 2 weeks ago where I brought my EL34 loaded egnater tweaker 15, marshall 1936, and a guitar. I could get killer tube tones at a reasonable volume. the cab was mic'd with a royer 121 ribbon mic, so SPLs were very important. if I had rolled with my 120 watt rivera and one of my former EVM12L-loaded 4x12 cabs, it would have been total overkill. to get the same tone as the tweaker 15, I would have had to have that amp running at volume levels that would kill small animals and deafen children. I would have also run a good chance of damaging the mic.

live, I will admit that I still prefer at least 40 watts - but I am currently gigging a 30 watt marshall, and I am able to punish that amp's tubes without being obscenely loud. the clean isn't as crisp as any of my rivera amps, but the tone is more organic. even using my egnater tweaker 40 (still a VERY small head in overall dimensions), the appearance is that of a lunchbox amp, but with a good amount of power that is usable for every situation.

and, really....as a guy who has had as many amps as you have had - you REALLY think a G-Dec 3 is going to destroy a mesa mini-rectoverb in the tone department? a carvin legacy 3? come on, man

[mccullpl]

I'm not getting into the luchbox amp debate, but I do the exact same thing as jgcable with my Single Rec and Lil Alligator, and it works very well, and still sounds great. Plus, with the way the solo boost works on these amps, it's easier for me to leave my master and solo settings on the amp alone, and adjust my stage volume with the pot on the volume pedal.

Pat

[roodyrocker]

An Attenuator does not necessarily mean your amp is going to sound like its covered with a blanket. It depends on what amp and what Attenuator. I tried a few different ones and the results depended on which one I used. For example, I tried a Ho Attenuator (sold now as the Ultimate Attenuator) and yes that one sounded like a big blanket got thrown over my cab. This despite the fact that the Ho/Ultimate was supposed to be great. Anyway, I have a Faustine Phantom and an Alex and they both work great. I tried an Aracom at an amp fest through my own amp and it worked well too.

[ZL1hawk]

Well, it seems to- be a "poor man's attenuator" of sorts. Supposedly, you can crank the amp's master volume, but keep it limited with the volume in the loop.

I've done the volume FX loop trick a few times with my Splawn Nitro and I hated it. I used this to try it out...






A lot of players think they are getting their power tubes hot to get that great tone but that isn't true. It's more of a master volume that is really working your preamp section, not the power amp tubes.

I would recommend doing what lefty is with an attenuator if you need to hush that Splawn up. You'll be happier with the results as he described.

[toejam]

I've done the volume FX loop trick a few times with my Splawn Nitro and I hated it. I used this to try it out...






A lot of players think they are getting their power tubes hot to get that great tone but that isn't true. It's more of a master volume that is really working your preamp section, not the power amp tubes.

I've got a volume box like that, too. It is similar to using a volume pedal in the loop, but you're right, it's not working your power tube section.

[PowerTube]

So what's the bottom line, guys? Is a 100-watt Splawn just too ridiculous for home use? And if so, would a Marshall JVM410H or JVM210H fare any better at low volume?

My Vetta II HD is rated at 300 watts (150 per side). And yes, I understand that this isn't the same as "tube watts," where a typical 100-watt head would blow it away, volume-wise. Basically, I want home use but I also want to be able to use it publicly if the situation ever arises.