The official don't buy this amp if you play at home list...

[Radiohead]

+1 on the Carvin Legacy (assuming Original - not the II orIII). I had one and it sounded like ass until you opened it up. It's great right up until your ears start to bleed. I was surprised that the X100B would be on the list. I read many reviews that the new reissue not be loud enough when they where first released? I was thinking of getting one just for this reason...

[PowerTube]

I would not necessarily advise those not gigging to stay away from these amps because they do have their own sound and tones no other amps can get.

Well put, and that's what I'm getting at. My JCM 800 sounded just like a JCM 800 at low volumes with pedals. My X100B sounded just like an X100B. Those tonal characteristics were fully intact, because regardless of all else, the signal is still going through the preamp section. The Splawn sounded like a Quick Rod at low volumes; I just didn't care for the sound and I also had other things that didn't sit well with me about it.

Plus, the higher-volume amp comes in handy on those occasions when we get to let them breathe and flex their muscle a little.

[Hellraiser6502]

For my money...a Mesa Mark III, IV or V is all you really need for both live and home settings....with an AXE FX for whatever 'color' you're going for.

OR a Mesa 2:50 or 2:90 power amp with an AXE FX.

Your mileage may vary of course.

[slo100]

I own three amps on the list and play more at home than gigging these days due to family, work, etc. I still enjoy the SLO, 2204, and SuperBass making noise in the basement. All three sound better, of course, at gig volume levels...I can only get that in rare moments the house is empty, LOL. I would not necessarily advise those not gigging to stay away from these amps because they do have their own sound and tones no other amps can get.

Something else to consider. I think they are also quite useful to have in recording situations assuming you have a room/space to mic them up and get the sound and response you'll be happy with tracking. The same amps that shine live will also shine recording in my opinion..maybe more so because you have the opportunity to use different cabinets, different mics/placement, etc.

[PowerTube]

What brought all this on anyway? :think:

This thread was sparked by my disagreement with him about powerful, high-gain amps. I maintain that they can be played comfortably at low volume and he disagrees.

[ZL1hawk]

I don't know what this jibba jabba is all about. Sounds like communism to me. jgcable you aren't going full Marxist Leninist on us are you? Jamming a perfectly dialed in monster high gain guitar rig in my zebra striped spandex showcasing my elongated chest hair to 16 year old girls is just the American fucking way dude. Chicks totally love it!

What brought all this on anyway? :think:

[PowerTube]

Yep. I recently played a Powerball in my local GC at very low volume and it sounded fine. Not my cup of tea, but low volume was no problem.

I think it's ridiculous in this day and age for ANY amp to abruptly go from whisper quiet to ripping your face off with a tiny bump of the volume knob. That's uncalled for and unnecessary.

I also still maintain that I would have no problem playing any of the amps listed above at low volume, using pedals. And in the case of the Marshalls and the Carvin X100B, I can also get a sound I really like.

[Electric]

When I had a Powerball, I thought the sound at low volume was excellent, so I also disagree with the ENGL part. I play my 6505+ at home for practice around volume 1.5ish and it sounds pretty good at that level.

[MOSHWITZ]

I'll have to disagree with the Engl part. My Savage 120 I used to have was a high gain crush your face as it rolled over you meat wagon,, and sounded bitchin at any volume high or low. what is a Pitball 100? Did an Engl Powerball and a VHT Pitbull screw and have little amp puppies? I agree with the SLO though.. that thing is crazy loud.

MOSHON
DAVE

[pianoguyy]

Thanks to technology making things better than they used to be, and to Chinese imports making them cheaper than they used to be ---
Go to Radio Shack and buy a set of those $10 computer speakers. $20 if you can want the one with the sub woofer.


That's all you need in a home. Unless your home doubles as something else - like a rehearsal hall or personal studio.
If you need to 'work on sound' then obviously this won't work for you. But if all you are doing is playing at home when you're bored or doing scales to keep your fingers nimble, why fret over it.

[PowerTube]

What Powertube is actually talking about is this. His ears are accustomed to that sweet Vetta tone. I had 4 Vetta's. They sound amazing at home. They sound amazing when you are in a 1 guitar band live. Its REALLY hard to get used to the sterile unforgiving tone of a high gain tube amp through a 4 x 12 cab at home. When you are playing live the natural reverb of the place along with the mix of the drums and bass and vocals and the fact that the vocal mics pick up a lot of the guitar tone and amplify it through the PA (assuming you aren't mic'd) really take that "sterile" guitar sound and turn it into "THE" sound. When a high gain tube amp is turned up you can FEEL the valves opening and closing. The amp FEELS and sounds alive. You just don't get that at home UNLESS you are using a modeling amp like what he has.. the Vetta.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm tired of that Vetta sound and I miss that sweet tube sound I had in the past, especially with the Marshall. And yes, I'm talking about at low volume.

You know, I've been in bands before and I know exactly what you're saying. Yes, I've experienced "natural reverb." I've also experienced microphone bleed-over before. I've also seen how I had to change my EQ for the sake of the mix. I've felt exactly what you're describing, where the amp takes on a whole new life at higher volume and you feel like you control the movement of the earth. I'm no novice at any of this. But when you're miked through a PA, then who needs super high volume anyway? If you put that tube amp on about four or higher, then the rest of the band had better be cranked to high heaven, also.

But I still disagree with you. Tubes have certain characteristics that transistors never did and modeling still doesn't quite. Transistor amps couldn't give you that tight, "chunk chunk" type of sound and feel, and modeling still sounds somewhat sterile. The harmonics of modeling amps aren't quite on par with tubes yet, either.

[Chad]

I rehearse with 2 different amps. I have a Fender G-DEC 15 that I use when I am playing along and learning new songs. I use my Peavey Triple X 60w all tube high gain combo with a BBE Sonic Stomp and a delay in the loop for band rehearsal and small gigs. I also use it at home when I want to just jam out a low to moderate volumes. Its a truly fantastic sounding amp. I use a Mesa Boogie Single Recto head through a Peavey 5150 4 x 12 cab for larger shows. Its only a 50w head.

What Powertube is actually talking about is this. His ears are accustomed to that sweet Vetta tone. I had 4 Vetta's. They sound amazing at home. They sound amazing when you are in a 1 guitar band live. Its REALLY hard to get used to the sterile unforgiving tone of a high gain tube amp through a 4 x 12 cab at home. When you are playing live the natural reverb of the place along with the mix of the drums and bass and vocals and the fact that the vocal mics pick up a lot of the guitar tone and amplify it through the PA (assuming you aren't mic'd) really take that "sterile" guitar sound and turn it into "THE" sound. When a high gain tube amp is turned up you can FEEL the valves opening and closing. The amp FEELS and sounds alive. You just don't get that at home UNLESS you are using a modeling amp like what he has.. the Vetta.

I hear ya. Those amps I mentioned sound and feel better with some volume. At lower volume, not as good, but they are still decent...and better than most practice amps IME. With that said, sometimes EQ tweaks are in order for different volumes to account for the amp itself and Fletcher-Munson.

[jgcable]

Yeah. That has been my experience as well, both with a Carvin and a Marshall.

The Carvin Legacy is so loud you can't even turn the master volume up to 1 without the cops coming. The Marshall Plexi is just a beast and it sounds fantastic when the cops are taking you away in handcuffs. Personally, I think the Plexi is a TERRIBLE amp for a high gain player.

[jgcable]

I guess I don't really agree with this premise. My evaluation of an amp includes its versatility and that includes sounding good at low, medium, or high volumes. In that criteria, I have owned and enjoyed a Dual Rectifier, Randall RM50, Marshall JMP-1/power amp combo, Allen Old Flame (boutique blackface style amp), etc.

I gig and play fairly loud from time to time, but I also practice through the same amps. I have tried small "practice" amps , but I'm never happy with them. I'd rather just play through a full blown tube amp at lower volume. YMMV.

I rehearse with 2 different amps. I have a Fender G-DEC 15 that I use when I am playing along and learning new songs. I use my Peavey Triple X 60w all tube high gain combo with a BBE Sonic Stomp and a delay in the loop for band rehearsal and small gigs. I also use it at home when I want to just jam out a low to moderate volumes. Its a truly fantastic sounding amp. I use a Mesa Boogie Single Recto head through a Peavey 5150 4 x 12 cab for larger shows. Its only a 50w head.

What Powertube is actually talking about is this. His ears are accustomed to that sweet Vetta tone. I had 4 Vetta's. They sound amazing at home. They sound amazing when you are in a 1 guitar band live. Its REALLY hard to get used to the sterile unforgiving tone of a high gain tube amp through a 4 x 12 cab at home. When you are playing live the natural reverb of the place along with the mix of the drums and bass and vocals and the fact that the vocal mics pick up a lot of the guitar tone and amplify it through the PA (assuming you aren't mic'd) really take that "sterile" guitar sound and turn it into "THE" sound. When a high gain tube amp is turned up you can FEEL the valves opening and closing. The amp FEELS and sounds alive. You just don't get that at home UNLESS you are using a modeling amp like what he has.. the Vetta.

[PowerTube]

I guess I don't really agree with this premise. My evaluation of an amp includes its versatility and that includes sounding good at low, medium, or high volumes. In that criteria, I have owned and enjoyed a Dual Rectifier, Randall RM50, Marshall JMP-1/power amp combo, Allen Old Flame (boutique blackface style amp), etc.

I gig and play fairly loud from time to time, but I also practice through the same amps. I have tried small "practice" amps , but I'm never happy with them. I'd rather just play through a full blown tube amp at lower volume. YMMV.

Yeah. That has been my experience as well, both with a Carvin and a Marshall.