The official don't buy this amp if you play at home list...

[jgcable]

I know that searching for the ultimate amp tone is fun but a lot of my fellow JCF brothers waste a ton of time and money making poor choices when it comes to amps. For example.. the entire Splawn Quickrod thread.
Anyway... we need to come up with a list of HIGH GAIN HIGH POWER amps that were designed for LIVE use that you should STAY AWAY from if you only play at home.

I will start...

Just about anything from Soldano. Especially the SLO100
Just about anything from Engl. Especially the Fireball and the Pitball 100
ANY MARSHALL PLEXI.
ANY MARSHALL JCM800 2201, 2203
Just about anything from Splawn.
Carvin Legacy
Carvin X100B
Rivera Duo 212
Mesa Dual or Triple Rectifier

[xenophobe]

I'd say any full sized tube head that would normally sell with a 4x12 is probably too loud to play at home unless you have a studio or a large-ish parcel of land...

[PowerTube]

I won't reiterate my entire spiel here, but I still disagree. I've gotten some phenomenal sounds on high-powered amps at home, playing at low volume and using pedals.

So what's wrong with getting great sounds both at low and high volumes?

[shreddermon]

It's all personal opinions. There are no "right" or "wrong" answers. Not black and white, only many shades of gray.

[rjohnstone]

It's all personal opinions. There are no "right" or "wrong" answers. Not black and white, only many shades of gray.

How many shades??? 50?
J/K

I used to use an attenuator on a JCM800 2x12 combo for at home practice before switching to Carvin solid state amps.
It was nice to have the same/similar tone to what you're playing live.

[neilli]

I'm not sure this counts as a rebuttal, but I have a 50w 1987x plexi reissue that was modified by Dave Friedman and that thing fucking smokes at low volumes, even whisper quiet. After being a total slave to my ADA MP1 for years and years, I've used my rack maybe 4 times in the 6 months I've had the Marshall.

[shreddermon]

How many shades??? 50?
J/K

Hopefully you're not doing THAT with your amp! LOL

[Chad]

I guess I don't really agree with this premise. My evaluation of an amp includes its versatility and that includes sounding good at low, medium, or high volumes. In that criteria, I have owned and enjoyed a Dual Rectifier, Randall RM50, Marshall JMP-1/power amp combo, Allen Old Flame (boutique blackface style amp), etc.

I gig and play fairly loud from time to time, but I also practice through the same amps. I have tried small "practice" amps , but I'm never happy with them. I'd rather just play through a full blown tube amp at lower volume. YMMV.

[PowerTube]

It's all personal opinions. There are no "right" or "wrong" answers. Not black and white, only many shades of gray.

Absolutely. I would never tell someone that they're "wrong" because they have a different taste in something than me.

[PowerTube]

I'm not sure this counts as a rebuttal, but I have a 50w 1987x plexi reissue that was modified by Dave Friedman and that thing fucking smokes at low volumes, even whisper quiet. After being a total slave to my ADA MP1 for years and years, I've used my rack maybe 4 times in the 6 months I've had the Marshall.

OMG!!!!! WHAT ARE YOU DOING?!?!?!?! YOU CAN'T RUN THAT AT HOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!





But seriously, I hear you. I also think there's a certain "magic" to some 4x12 cabs that you just can't get from a combo.

[PowerTube]

I guess I don't really agree with this premise. My evaluation of an amp includes its versatility and that includes sounding good at low, medium, or high volumes. In that criteria, I have owned and enjoyed a Dual Rectifier, Randall RM50, Marshall JMP-1/power amp combo, Allen Old Flame (boutique blackface style amp), etc.

I gig and play fairly loud from time to time, but I also practice through the same amps. I have tried small "practice" amps , but I'm never happy with them. I'd rather just play through a full blown tube amp at lower volume. YMMV.

Yeah. That has been my experience as well, both with a Carvin and a Marshall.

[jgcable]

I guess I don't really agree with this premise. My evaluation of an amp includes its versatility and that includes sounding good at low, medium, or high volumes. In that criteria, I have owned and enjoyed a Dual Rectifier, Randall RM50, Marshall JMP-1/power amp combo, Allen Old Flame (boutique blackface style amp), etc.

I gig and play fairly loud from time to time, but I also practice through the same amps. I have tried small "practice" amps , but I'm never happy with them. I'd rather just play through a full blown tube amp at lower volume. YMMV.

I rehearse with 2 different amps. I have a Fender G-DEC 15 that I use when I am playing along and learning new songs. I use my Peavey Triple X 60w all tube high gain combo with a BBE Sonic Stomp and a delay in the loop for band rehearsal and small gigs. I also use it at home when I want to just jam out a low to moderate volumes. Its a truly fantastic sounding amp. I use a Mesa Boogie Single Recto head through a Peavey 5150 4 x 12 cab for larger shows. Its only a 50w head.

What Powertube is actually talking about is this. His ears are accustomed to that sweet Vetta tone. I had 4 Vetta's. They sound amazing at home. They sound amazing when you are in a 1 guitar band live. Its REALLY hard to get used to the sterile unforgiving tone of a high gain tube amp through a 4 x 12 cab at home. When you are playing live the natural reverb of the place along with the mix of the drums and bass and vocals and the fact that the vocal mics pick up a lot of the guitar tone and amplify it through the PA (assuming you aren't mic'd) really take that "sterile" guitar sound and turn it into "THE" sound. When a high gain tube amp is turned up you can FEEL the valves opening and closing. The amp FEELS and sounds alive. You just don't get that at home UNLESS you are using a modeling amp like what he has.. the Vetta.

[jgcable]

Yeah. That has been my experience as well, both with a Carvin and a Marshall.

The Carvin Legacy is so loud you can't even turn the master volume up to 1 without the cops coming. The Marshall Plexi is just a beast and it sounds fantastic when the cops are taking you away in handcuffs. Personally, I think the Plexi is a TERRIBLE amp for a high gain player.

[Chad]

I rehearse with 2 different amps. I have a Fender G-DEC 15 that I use when I am playing along and learning new songs. I use my Peavey Triple X 60w all tube high gain combo with a BBE Sonic Stomp and a delay in the loop for band rehearsal and small gigs. I also use it at home when I want to just jam out a low to moderate volumes. Its a truly fantastic sounding amp. I use a Mesa Boogie Single Recto head through a Peavey 5150 4 x 12 cab for larger shows. Its only a 50w head.

What Powertube is actually talking about is this. His ears are accustomed to that sweet Vetta tone. I had 4 Vetta's. They sound amazing at home. They sound amazing when you are in a 1 guitar band live. Its REALLY hard to get used to the sterile unforgiving tone of a high gain tube amp through a 4 x 12 cab at home. When you are playing live the natural reverb of the place along with the mix of the drums and bass and vocals and the fact that the vocal mics pick up a lot of the guitar tone and amplify it through the PA (assuming you aren't mic'd) really take that "sterile" guitar sound and turn it into "THE" sound. When a high gain tube amp is turned up you can FEEL the valves opening and closing. The amp FEELS and sounds alive. You just don't get that at home UNLESS you are using a modeling amp like what he has.. the Vetta.

I hear ya. Those amps I mentioned sound and feel better with some volume. At lower volume, not as good, but they are still decent...and better than most practice amps IME. With that said, sometimes EQ tweaks are in order for different volumes to account for the amp itself and Fletcher-Munson.

[PowerTube]

What Powertube is actually talking about is this. His ears are accustomed to that sweet Vetta tone. I had 4 Vetta's. They sound amazing at home. They sound amazing when you are in a 1 guitar band live. Its REALLY hard to get used to the sterile unforgiving tone of a high gain tube amp through a 4 x 12 cab at home. When you are playing live the natural reverb of the place along with the mix of the drums and bass and vocals and the fact that the vocal mics pick up a lot of the guitar tone and amplify it through the PA (assuming you aren't mic'd) really take that "sterile" guitar sound and turn it into "THE" sound. When a high gain tube amp is turned up you can FEEL the valves opening and closing. The amp FEELS and sounds alive. You just don't get that at home UNLESS you are using a modeling amp like what he has.. the Vetta.

No, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm tired of that Vetta sound and I miss that sweet tube sound I had in the past, especially with the Marshall. And yes, I'm talking about at low volume.

You know, I've been in bands before and I know exactly what you're saying. Yes, I've experienced "natural reverb." I've also experienced microphone bleed-over before. I've also seen how I had to change my EQ for the sake of the mix. I've felt exactly what you're describing, where the amp takes on a whole new life at higher volume and you feel like you control the movement of the earth. I'm no novice at any of this. But when you're miked through a PA, then who needs super high volume anyway? If you put that tube amp on about four or higher, then the rest of the band had better be cranked to high heaven, also.

But I still disagree with you. Tubes have certain characteristics that transistors never did and modeling still doesn't quite. Transistor amps couldn't give you that tight, "chunk chunk" type of sound and feel, and modeling still sounds somewhat sterile. The harmonics of modeling amps aren't quite on par with tubes yet, either.