80's metal cover band amp...surprise!!!!

[jgcable]

You all know me. I am an amp guy. I have owned or own just about every amp ever made with the exception of Cornford or the Matchless Spitfire.
For the last 3 months I have been in a very popular 80's metal band. We do everything from Whitesnake, Ratt, Scorpions, Bon Jovi, Poison, Skid Row etc.... The band consists of lead singer, bass, 2 guitars, keyboards and drummer. Everybody sings. Its ALOT of sound and doesn't require me to FILL THE ROOM with sound. There are plenty of other instruments helping out.
I have tried several amps live with the band to see which one I like best. All of my amps are high gain and I have several different cabs to choose from. We mic the everything through the PA so stage volume is kept to a min. Last show I used my Marshall DSL100 and my Marshall slant 4 x 12 cab loaded with Celestions. I didn't like the way it sounded. I couldn't turn it up to the sweet spot in the amp so it sounded thin to my ears. The crowd was into it though. I wasn't. I have also used a Peavey 6505+ and a Jet City JCA20H with various cabs. Again... the sound is good but for me.. as a player... its uninspiring. I just can't get these amps to their sweet spots live. Also... they sound different in every club we play in. Especially if we are going indoors to outdoors. I also don't like tap dancing all over the place for solo boost, flangers, delays, chorus, harmonizers etc....
So.. that leads me to the amp that I like playing the best live. I have a Line 6 Bogner powered Spider Valve 112 combo that I plug a 2 x 12 Blackstar extension cab into. I use the FBV Express foot pedal. This is the amp that has 2 6L6 power tubes and 3 12AX7 preamp tubes and basically a POD X3 for the tones. To my ears.. this amp sounds the closest to the 80's metal tones I need to get. It also eliminates the tap dancing and it takes 5 minutes to set up and break down. This amp sounds good in every room, indoor or outdoor. It has the perfect amount of gain. The guys don't like it because it says Line 6 on it and to them... it must be a cheap thin sounding modeling amp. I agree... it can't compete with a good cranked up tube amp in terms of cutting through a mix but with this band.. the only time I need to cut through the mix is for solo's and that's NO PROBLEM with this amp. Its 60watts of Bogner powered tubes. Its STUPID loud. Anyway... we have a gig this Saturday and I am going to use it again and leave all my 80's high gain tube amps and heads and 1/2 stacks home. Just wanted to share.

[Vass]

Glad you're still loving it. I have the 212 and it's stupid how good it sounds with just a little effort. Tremendously responsive. I have mine hooked up to just the floorboard and have casters on it to boot. Zip zip zip, I'm set up, you guys good? No? Well allow me to noodle and irritate you

I went out and got a Pod HD X Pro for shits and it's nearly as fun. I really need to get a shitty laptop to build more patches for the 212 since my pc is on the 3rd floor of my house.... Fuck that! I'm not a big tweaker but I like knowing that my settings are my settings are my settings, and understanding that things will get a bit different space to space, I'm 90% of the way there as soon as I come off standby.

[Newc]

It seems odd to me that they complain about the Line 6 logo yet would also complain about the "Classic 80s Metal" 1/2 stack volume level.

Alternatively, have you considered an isolation box so you can crank the hell out of it and just mic that?

Or maybe a 2x12?

Or maybe, just for looks, a 4x12 cab with only 2 speakers in it? That should help with the volume and get the speakers moving enough to satisfy you.

[Frfurter]

Modeling amps are great into the pa.

If the band doesn't like it, put some duct tape over the line6 logo or do the Skynyrd thing...

[lefty]

Hey, glad you're feeling better and out there bringin' it.
Rock on!

[PowerTube]

Simple solution: put your JCM900 halfstack on stage, plug a cable into the input jack, run the other end to some undisclosed location. Hide the Spider behind it and no one will know the difference.

[PowerTube]

Modeling amps are great into the pa.

If the band doesn't like it, put some duct tape over the line6 logo or do the Skynyrd thing...

Far more bands have done such things than people realize. It might be because of an endorsement deal, or it might be like this case where they might not perceive it as "badass" enough or whatever. Many people also don't realize that when they see that mighty row of Marshall stacks on the stage, only 1-2 are actually active sometimes, and those have been modified.

[jgcable]

Far more bands have done such things than people realize. It might be because of an endorsement deal, or it might be like this case where they might not perceive it as "badass" enough or whatever. Many people also don't realize that when they see that mighty row of Marshall stacks on the stage, only 1-2 are actually active sometimes, and those have been modified.

Yea, what I notice with the bigger shows is bands don't show their amplifiers at all anymore. They usually have screens in front of them with graphics or the bands name on the screens. You can't see the amps at all. I could care less what my amp looks like onstage but I understand where the band is coming from. They are very concerned with the show and the crowds perception of the band.

[Shawn Lutz]

whatever works...and gives you what you need live use it.

Have you tried facing your cab backwards, or baffle it and cranking a tube amp?

[AdRock]

One thing I'll suggest for you.

Hook up the tube rig and get it where the sweet spot is and you love the sound. Then record it with the mic you normally use. Then hook up the line 6 setup and record it with the same mic at the lower levels you need for the gigs. Then sit and listen to both recording and see just how different they are. At that point start tweaking the settings on the Line 6 and record it again. See if it's any closer to the tube sound. If not keep tweaking and recording. It might take a while but eventually you'll get them to sound very close if not exactly the same.

When I helped my buddy do his we recorded the 3 channels from the tube rig. 1.Dry clean tone 2.Dry Rhythm tone 3. Dry Lead Tone

We then built those 2 channels in the modeler/preamp and used the recording method to repeatedly tweak on them until we got them where we were happy with them. Then we started adding pedals to the tube rig, recording them, then adding them in the modeler/preamp until they were right. so on and so on. It's a lot of work and takes time, but my buddies rig sound exactly like his tube rig cranked but at 1/4 of the volume if not less.

[Bert]

I know what you mean both about the tap dancing and sweet spot issue. It's the one reason I can't ditch my MIDI controlled rack (Randall RM-4 + rack-mount effects) even though tone wise it can't compete with my pure tube amp heads + outboard effects. To deal with the sweet spot issue, I use a lower wattage tube amp in my rack (Mesa 20/20), and run it into a 2x12 cab or only half of my 4x12 which has stereo input jacks. To take it even one step further, I recently swapped out the V30s in my 2x12 with greenbacks which are a few DB lower in sensitivity. This lets me run the amp hotter without getting screaming loud. And my cabs all say MARSHALL or MESA so the image problem is solved too!

I have a Pod X3 Pro which I've never really liked much, but I've never actually tried to use it live. I've been thinking about giving it a go in place of the Randall. Sounds like it might work well based on your experience JG.

[kmanick]

time for an Axe FX II?

[jgcable]

time for an Axe FX II?

The Bogner Spidervalve is so much easier. No programming. Its just a regular amp with just a few basic effects that are barely adjustable. I set up the 1 x 12 combo on stage and plugged in my Blackstar 2 x 12 cab as an extension. I then plugged in the FBV MKII Express foot controller and I put a harmonizer in the loop. It took me 5 minutes to set up. Instead of mic'ing the cab I ran a Behringer Ultra G direct box with 4 x 12 cab emulation on direct into the snake to the board. My sound was absolutely perfect. The sound guy was blown away. The other guitar player was using a Marshall 9200 power amp and a Marshall JMP1 into a 2 x 12 cab mic'd and the balance of our 2 sounds was perfect. Kind of like Downing/Tipton or Demartini/Crosby or Aldridge/Beech. Couldn't be happier with my overall sound.

[pianoguyy]

time for an Axe FX II?

The Bogner Spidervalve is so much easier. No programming. Its just a regular amp with just a few basic effects that are barely adjustable.

I am not going to get into a fight over brand names. Or live vs Memorex.
I made the jump from amp to modeler. I don't see myself going back to amps anytime soon.

But as far as programming...
It really is just like any other rig. If you want it to be plain and simple, you can make it plain and simple. One of my 'most used' patches consists just an Engl Fireball. Nothing else.
I started with a completely blank sound. I selected an amp model. The default amp settings were perfect. I needed to change NOTHING.

Of course, I have other patches that are dual amps. Each with their own fx chain running in stereo. THOSE can be a pain to program when you just want to sit down and play.
But you can do simple if you want simple --- without the hassle of lugging an amp around.

[jgcable]

I am not going to get into a fight over brand names. Or live vs Memorex.
I made the jump from amp to modeler. I don't see myself going back to amps anytime soon.

But as far as programming...
It really is just like any other rig. If you want it to be plain and simple, you can make it plain and simple. One of my 'most used' patches consists just an Engl Fireball. Nothing else.
I started with a completely blank sound. I selected an amp model. The default amp settings were perfect. I needed to change NOTHING.

Of course, I have other patches that are dual amps. Each with their own fx chain running in stereo. THOSE can be a pain to program when you just want to sit down and play.
But you can do simple if you want simple --- without the hassle of lugging an amp around.

I need an amp on stage. I don't like running strictly through the board and using the monitoring system for my sound. Regarding the Ax FX I am sure it blows away my Spidervalve but I don't want to deal with power amps and rack mount gear along with midi foot controllers. Its just not that important to sound any better than the rig I have. Does it sound better than my Marshall or Soldano or my Fender twins? Nope. For me.. it doesn't need to. It gives me great sound and its a very effective live rig for an 80's metal band.