How much gain do you need when you play live???

[Ripley7t]

I love to play with lots of gain, for practice, not so much. Most of the folks in this thread have lots of experience, so I wont state the obvious, lol. I just use about 1/2 the gain when learning something new.

You can hide a lot of obvious technique issues with all the effects and high gain, but I don't think that is an issue with the group in this thread. As long as you know how to dial it in, really doesn't matter if its at 5, or 11. That extra kick you get sometimes really calls attention to the fills and the solo. Just my 2 cents.

[jgcable]

I took Steve Vai's Berklee course recently through Berklee online and noticed he uses an absolute SHIT TON of gain, in addition to kicking in the sustainer for many songs. Since then I've been using more gain for my leads and it definitely makes some things easier. You have to be way more careful when it comes to muting strings and turning down between songs to deal with the hiss/hum (or use a noise gate), but you get the hang of it -- I'm sure you've already mastered those techniques jg, so no big deal for you probably. For 80s rhythm though too much gain sounds too fizzy.... I find I need a lower gain tone to get that ballsy rhythm sound.

That's exactly what I am noticing. Since I am interested in this "amount of gain thing", I have been listening to the pro's live in both live shows and instructional videos and the one thing they all seem to have in common is gain... AND LOTS OF IT.... along with usually a hefty amount of delay, reverb and other schmutz...
There is a notable exception. Guthrie Govan has the ability to play just about anything with virtually no gain.
On the flip side.. players like Steve Vai and Joe Satriani rely on maximum gain and delay. A lot of people thing that Slash plays relatively clean. Nope... not even close. He plays with a ton of gain and ton of delay. EVH has increased his gain in his live tone by at least 50% over the years.
I am jumping on the bandwagon and slamming my already high gain Rivera and Marshall right in the face with a nice fat overdrive out in front and delay, reverb, chorus, flange, phase, a harmonizer and an EQ boost when needed in the loop. This way.. if I drop my pick it doesn't really matter if I pick up another one!!

[pianoguyy]

There is actually a couple things to consider.
1. Technique. Too much gain will destroy your technique. So, using gain should be reserved for 'special' occasions.
2. Studio work. Tone is important. We may need to drop the gain for clarity.
3. Live performance. If you are putting on a show, you need to put on a $how. Maximum gain may help cover some of errors that can occur while you are trying to look cool doing one-handed runs while pumping your fist in the air. -----something I know nothing about, lol.

[AdRock]

I do notice that a lot of pro's use a lot of gain. BUT, they usually also have some elaborate switching system with a ton of different components and a team of people doing the tweaking to get them the sound they want. This way they can have the high gain but still retain clarity. If I had the money and a team to to work on my stuff I would probably play with much more gain than I do. But,,, I be too broke for that.

[clifffclaven]

Ive been using a jmp1/quadraverb rack setup for a few years... I usually use the OD2 channel, gain at around 12 for rhythms and maybe 15 for leads? I have a pod x3 live in front but really only use it for the midi switching and wah/tuner/volume pedal. Maybe a little chorus or a special effect like an octaver if needed, but usually no "fake stompboxes" for gain. I just use the quad for a small amount of delay/reverb for solos. I hate seeing players use tons of delay, it masks shitty technique in bar players, and in arenas makes it sound like a washed out pile of shit.

[Jackson8090s]

jgcable , He was using a Mesa Dual Recto half stack with a bunch of stomp boxes. His rig sounded outstanding and it had a TON of gain. I was using his 81 LP with Dimarzio's in it. He was using all the gain from the amp and the delay pedal was on. I have to admit it. I LOVED playing with all that gain.

I've read this entire thread and what it sounds like to me is you're impressed with this guys equipment and how was setup. You can't recreate what you experienced from his rig with your equipment and rightly so, you're not going to get Mesa girth from your Marshall no matter what stomp boxes and delays you put in front of it. I'm not a Marshall hater or nothing, they're great amps, but maybe you need Mesa Dual Recto... or a profiler , Axe FX 2 or Kemper. Good luck man, hope you find that tone you're craving.

[Bert]

The OD2 channel on the JMP-1 always sounded to me like it was basically the OD1 tone but with a distortion pedal in front of it.

[xenophobe]

Well, if your goal is to get pro-touring grade sound you're gonna need pro-touring grade gear. None of your favorite touring artists are gonna be plugged direct into a pedal chain direct to amp like if you're home/studio/gigging band. I hate lugging around more gear than you actually need too.

So you want to have Steve Vai gear or just the "local band shredder guy" gear?

As Jackson8090 said, Axe FX or Kemper makes getting that sound a lot easier, but yeah, you want to carry a couple grand of additional and questionably necessary gear with you? I get too paranoid if I bring too much gear. Simple gear can sound awesome, but you're not gonna have highly processed uber gain plugging into even an epic tube amp.

[Jackson8090s]

If I were a gigging musician that'd be the way to go, Axe FX2/ Kemper ,off time not touring, get the profiles I like, create my own, you got every amp/fx's known, keep it updated. You've also reduced your touring load to one of those 2 items and whatever guitars you take with ya, which minimizes damage to gear, hauling/ fuel, chance of theft, you just wouldn't have so much to keep track of. Provided the house or band has a PA system. Sounds great to me anyway.

[pianoguyy]

Well, if your goal is to get pro-touring grade sound you're gonna need pro-touring grade gear.
As Jackson8090 said, Axe FX or Kemper makes getting that sound a lot easier

Pro-gear is a widely overused, and greatly misunderstood, term. Pro gear is usually something only amateurs worry about.
Besides being a musician, I was in the bar business and had many big names stroll through. You'd be amazed at how many 'props' are used on stage. For sound check, they use these tiny little 'practice' amps. You couldn't even hear them in the office. That is what the PA is for. But then they build the stage around them with all of these empty cabs that look cool but don't do anything.
And this was long before modeling tech. Today, some of these bands stroll in with one 5-foot high rack unit. It has everybody's everything. Modeling for 2 guitars and a bass. Keyboards. Wireless transmitters. The entire band in one tall rack case.

If I were a gigging musician that'd be the way to go, Axe FX2/ Kemper ,

I use a modeler, but not a profiler. And it is not one of those two, lol. I prefer to dial in my own tone, so automatic profiling would be wasted on me. It is a nice feature if you would use it, but not worth the expense for the limited usage it would get from me.

While I don't suggest anyone throw away perfectly working gear, I do suggest that anyone shopping for a new amp/fx should go check out the technology that is available.
My main rig (for 20+ years) may not have been huge (a Peavey Bandit 65 and a 12 space rack), but I am never carrying any of that shit again. In one floorboard, I get 60 amps to choose from and every fx known to man except a talk box. And I plug straight into the pa.
Ten pounds and 22 inches, it is certainly better than the alternative.

[xenophobe]

Pro-gear is a widely overused, and greatly misunderstood, term. Pro gear is usually something only amateurs worry about.
Besides being a musician, I was in the bar business and had many big names stroll through. You'd be amazed at how many 'props' are used on stage. For sound check, they use these tiny little 'practice' amps. You couldn't even hear them in the office. That is what the PA is for. But then they build the stage around them with all of these empty cabs that look cool but don't do anything.
And this was long before modeling tech. Today, some of these bands stroll in with one 5-foot high rack unit. It has everybody's everything. Modeling for 2 guitars and a bass. Keyboards. Wireless transmitters. The entire band in one tall rack case.

Pro gear, like my Bogner Fish and VHT 2150... or my Mesa rackmount with an evantide or a Kemper or AXE FX with various tidbits type full rig. Any of the big name guys people would think here are probably pulling along at least one or two full 16 space racks with them... and most pro guys have a complete backup chain to pull along with that. Certainly most of them don't have rigs that they can manage all by themselves.

A lot of people here have a lot of experience with these, far more than me, but if you're talking reproducing studio/album production sound on the road, you're not going to do it, at least consistently without some sort of pro setup.

I'm not talking about a faux backline. lol

I use a modeler, but not a profiler. And it is not one of those two, lol. I prefer to dial in my own tone, so automatic profiling would be wasted on me. It is a nice feature if you would use it, but not worth the expense for the limited usage it would get from me.

While I don't suggest anyone throw away perfectly working gear, I do suggest that anyone shopping for a new amp/fx should go check out the technology that is available.
My main rig (for 20+ years) may not have been huge (a Peavey Bandit 65 and a 12 space rack), but I am never carrying any of that shit again. In one floorboard, I get 60 amps to choose from and every fx known to man except a talk box. And I plug straight into the pa.
Ten pounds and 22 inches, it is certainly better than the alternative.

Yeah, the full size rack isn't necessary anymore. You can boil it all down to a 6 or 8 these days. But even that's not necessary. Pure unprocessed high gain is not pretty on stage... there's nothing worse than a band with two guitarists playing Mesa and/or Line 6 with gain and presence set way too high. Unless you like to hear a muddy wall of undiscernable sound when they're playing and a blanket of hiss when they stop.

[xenophobe]

I'm enjoying discussing this, but you did kinda answer your own question.

I guest starred for a local 80's metal band over the weekend and I used the guitar players rig. He was using a Mesa Dual Recto half stack with a bunch of stomp boxes. His rig sounded outstanding and it had a TON of gain. I was using his 81 LP with Dimarzio's in it. He was using all the gain from the amp and the delay pedal was on. I have to admit it. I LOVED playing with all that gain. I think I was ripping faster and more fun to play solo's than ever.

Maybe see if you could try his amp again in the studio. Maybe it's time for some change?

[j2379]

rectoverb w an EV loaded 2X12, gain almost dimed....no pedals, love it. The EVs dont muddy up like V30s plenty of bass thump and clarity tho with the EVs if your not careful with the presence it gets painfully bright.

[horns666]

I play thru completely clean tones without any FX..with or without a pick.

I play several hours a night every night. Double hammers with each finger, both hands. I'm doing stuff I never seen/heard before. The most insane arppegios ..not sweeping.

But if I'd ever cover "paranoid" I'd promise the craziest version ever concieved ..hmmm.


'Sup guys..!

[horns666]

If you're actually taking your band serious, have a sound guy or someone who is intimately familiar with your band's sound and understands gear, that you trust and have them do a live level check... For a band with one guitar, it's not so much a big deal... if you have two guitarists it becomes very important.

Almost every guitarist who practices alone at home ends up putting too much gain, too much bass and too much presence or too much saturation... and while it sounds great cranking up loud in your garage, it ends up sounding like shit when you add all the other instruments.

This is in The Book of Revelation 12-17...whores, babylon, bar rats with tats.. 666 ..all that shit.