I like playing through modeling amps better and I sound better!!

[jgcable]

You guys know.. I have a ton of amps. Most of them are tube amps. I have owned just about everything on my never ending quest for the perfect tone. Also.. I am primarily a live player. I rehearse with an 80's metal band live and I gig regularly.

My band is a 6pc. 2 guitars, bass, drums, keyboard and lead vocalist.
I have tried just about all of my amps live with this band. From kick ass Rivera's to 6505+ to Marshalls to Mesa's to Soldano to Blackstar etc....
Last night at rehearsal I decided to try out my Line 6 Spidervalve 1 x 12 combo which is a Bogner all tube powered modeling amp.
I had more fun playing last night then usual. Also... the guys in the band all thought I sounded better than ever. Its so much fun ripping solo's with a modeling amp live. The only thing I notice is I have to turn the amp up louder than most of my tube amps but.... this amp is 60 watts of 6L6 Bogner power and its STUPID loud. That's only with a 1 x 12 cab. I have an extension 2 x 12 cab and a 4 x 12 for it if need be.
Anyway... I think I am fooling myself thinking that tubes are better than modeling live. The other guitarist is playing through a Marshall 9200 power amp and a Marshall JMP1 so he has plenty of firepower to bury me dead but the reality is we have a killer PA system and everything is mic'd so it really doesn't matter how loud his... or my.. amp is. I use a Behringer Ultra G guitar direct box with the Line 6 sent directly to the board with the 4 x 12 emulation on live and it sounds perfect.
Discuss..... (I know.. I bring this topic up a lot but my guess is its something a lot of us think about).

[jgcable]

Oh yea.. and to add one thing. Most of my musician friends all tend to agree that I am the guitar tone guru around here. I always get great tone no matter what amp I am playing through. I think I play the best out of this stupid Line 6 amp!

[markD]

Enjoy the line 6. I haven't been able to get one to respond in the mids the way I like. Being the only guitar in the band, I use a more mid-heavy sound and I used EVM speakers in my cabs. Using either my Marshall or my Rivera I am able to get the type of singing, smooth (almost fusion-like) tone with ease. When I use modeling live, I find that there is always some frequency that annoys me. I tend to run a parametric EQ with a modeler live to fix this issue. When running the tube amps I don't have to do this.

I tend to get regular compliments on my tone as well. Other guitarists from the bands we play with will crowd the front of the stage to check out what I am using. Often they will get my attention afterward to ask how I get my tone. Many of them are stunned when I tell them it is just an EBMM guitar (stock) plugged into a 60 watt Rivera running a Marshall cab (no effects with that rig - not even reverb anymore) - or it's the EBMM guitar into a stock Marshall 3203 with an MXR Super Bad-ass Distortion running a Marshall cab (no effects anymore - just the distortion pedal).

The average response is, "HUH?!?! That's it?!?!?!?!?"

I am like, "Yep. It's all I need."

Then 99% of those guys are like, "Fuck, you sounded KILLER."

I thank them and then let them look at my guitar and other gear. They'll usually tell me all the shit they're using, and ask for advice on getting better tone. A couple of dude's have asked me to come to their practice space and help them tweak their sound because they don't like it. The biggest thing I run into when I do this is that the guy will have CRAZY EQing going on...or there is just SOOOO much in the signal chain running at once. After we discuss what they NEED, and turn some shit off, we'll focus on the EQ. There have been many times where the rig sounds great with the EQ running at almost noon on everything with a few tweaks here and there.

It is an interesting thing, chasing tone. I have gone through phases of using almost every type of amp - vintage, modern, modeling, rack system, combo, half stack, wet/dry, etc. Currently I find that I am happiest, and getting the most compliments running a simple rig that offers 3 sounds (if using the Rivera) - clean, heavy, boosted. If I am using the Marshall, I have 2 sounds - clean and heavy. It works.

[pianoguyy]

I play through an amp modeler, not a modeling amp.
And in the 30+ years that I did use amps, I rarely ever used a tube amp. Always used Solid State, with effects giving me my tones.


Because I no longer use an amp, my issue is sound/volume.
Of course having 4 4x12 cabs blasting right at you, and pushing all of that air in your direction, is going to be different than having a wedge monitor vibrating your nuts as you 'strike a pose' on top of it.
However, it sounds the same on audio recordings and to the live concert audiences as the real thing does. I mean, I can buy some cabs and have my modeler blasted at me if I really wanted it to be exactly the same.
One of the reasons I went digital was to cut down on gear. So it really would not make sense for me to carry amps, lol.


But you guys with the big amps on stage are going to run out of places to play.
Many places require a 'quiet stage'. And so many people are using IEM's. I mean, how loud are you going to have to turn up an earpiece when competing with a 100watt Marshall.
AND, if you are using an earpiece with something that sounds the same to the audience, won't it sound the same to you?

[Hellbat]

You still need to try an Axe-FX 2 John. Or check out the new AX-8 when it comes out next month.

[markD]

But you guys with the big amps on stage are going to run out of places to play.
Many places require a 'quiet stage'.

I only play theatres, so I haven't run into that issue yet. I am not in a weekend cover band. My band is all original, only doing national shows. We have scaled back a little, only playing once a month, but it is still enough to keep it fun. Regarding the "quiet stage", I have only run into it ONCE over the last 5 years. It wasn't a big deal since my band uses scrims. I just set my rig up offstage and listened through the monitors. But even on a regular basis, my amps are rarely above 3 on the master anyway. I have the higher wattage for the headroom on my clean channel.

Regarding the "4 4x12 cabs" thing, as I said, I am playing theatres and I am only using a 2x12 at the largest - sometimes just a 1x12. We're doing a small regional run between Thanksgiving and Christmas. For that run, I'll be bringing a Rivera M60 1x12 combo. It hangs behind a scrim, so it can't be seen anyway. It packs easy, takes up little space onstage, sounds the way I want....why would I want something different, something that imitates what I already have, when I have the real thing - and none of the imitators I know of imitate my rig?

[horns666]

The AXE FX are what Vetta were..I guess, sorta. It paved the way. My kid's buddy Joe age 18 is FAST..faster than me..maybe. Fast as Loomis. He refuses to play any of my gear. I even have two line 6 combos to plink on. He won't, refuse, ..fuggums. Bless him, the kid is the real deal. Reminds me of a young me..driven.

He insists on his Line 6 HD 500 thru his PA It sounds ..he's sounds amazing. Just as good as anything I have here, and better than most people I ever knew. Tube purists bullshit is a bullshit crutch. Dinosaurs with tubes up their asses. Don't get me wrong. I have the best tube amps money can buy for me. Bought Bogner, Engl, Freyette, JVM410, owned more than I remember..recto, MRK IIIs, Lee Jacksons, Soldano SL60, HR100, and prolly just as many old Marshalls and original (5) 5150's as my goomba JohnC. Use what your good at. Anyone mocks it, tell 'em go fuck themselves. Tell 'em to prove it..show me. If they do...whatever. Never listen to fools, or argure with one. "Never give a sucker an even break"...great WC Fields movie.

I KNOW tone..and LOUD and play like the devil. I'd love the chance to trade licks with Loomis, Tony Mac, Freidman, Yngwie, Gilbert, Drover, Uli, EVH..I will hold my own, and it will be fun. A freind wants to record. His playing is extremely good. His recording and tone (Line 6) on that, is better than anyone I know locally. He's more melodic than me, but I'm fast, a great ear, and a knack for writing EVIL riffs. Thru any amp. If I can't get what I need ..Clean channel, and a stock Boss SD-1 will do. I learned a priceless lesson from Glen Drover..it was a major game changer for me.

In my absence from here. I play with different guitars, different, amp, different picks, different guitars every 5 days or so. High action, low action. Ones that I used to think was unplayable. I like working on other guitars other than my own. Now whatever I grab..I adjust to. This way you never paint yourself in a corner. No excuses or crutches. Clean ch..dirty ch..no amp..no pick. Give me a rubber band strapped to a stick..I'll play eruption. I'll adjust to it.

John, That line 6/Bogner would do just fine. I'll be spot on with it.

[rjohnstone]

I use my GT-8 and 2 Carvin 2x12 solid state combo amps for practice.
I run the GT-8 direct into the line input on the Carvins and bypass the front end entirely. I just use the amp section.
Sound is huge and consistent at any volume level.
Live, I just run the GT-8 direct to the PA and use the stage monitor for reference.
Took me many months of tweaking and testing, but I have 4 patches that do everything I need.
Brilliant clean patch, full stereo "80's" glam tone with all the trimmings patch, nice early VH tone patch, and then a straight up in your face no-frills chunky metal tone with just a hint of reverb.

[horns666]

Rick the dick!

[rjohnstone]

Nice to see you back Billz!!!!

[jgcable]

I only play theatres, so I haven't run into that issue yet. I am not in a weekend cover band. My band is all original, only doing national shows. We have scaled back a little, only playing once a month, but it is still enough to keep it fun. Regarding the "quiet stage", I have only run into it ONCE over the last 5 years. It wasn't a big deal since my band uses scrims. I just set my rig up offstage and listened through the monitors. But even on a regular basis, my amps are rarely above 3 on the master anyway. I have the higher wattage for the headroom on my clean channel.

Regarding the "4 4x12 cabs" thing, as I said, I am playing theatres and I am only using a 2x12 at the largest - sometimes just a 1x12. We're doing a small regional run between Thanksgiving and Christmas. For that run, I'll be bringing a Rivera M60 1x12 combo. It hangs behind a scrim, so it can't be seen anyway. It packs easy, takes up little space onstage, sounds the way I want....why would I want something different, something that imitates what I already have, when I have the real thing - and none of the imitators I know of imitate my rig?

Hey Mark, I did a show a few weeks ago with my 80's metal band and I used my Rivera Suprema which is a 1 x 12 combo. I mic'd it with an SM57. I used the 4 cable method using my Boss GT10 for effects, solo boost and an always active EQ. My sound was fantastic. Still.. I was told I had better guitar tone at the gig I did with the Bogner powered Line 6 Spidervalve. I think if I had to play with my guitar volume control or if I needed a lot of medium gain tones the Rivera would be better but with this band its full out 80's hair band metal. I keep the same settings for 35+ songs.

[markD]

I was told I had better guitar tone at the gig I did with the Bogner powered Line 6 Spidervalve.

That's cool. I have seen a couple cover band guys around here that use that amp - usually the half stack version - and they sound great. I just use what I have always used. As I have said many times, I have been using the Rivera M/S amps since 1990. Nothing gives me what I want to hear like those amps do - they allow me to express myself and my give me my tone more than other piece of gear does.

[horns666]

Hey U..JohnCable!!!

Johnny Tubz Goombiini ..Gimme some sugar..baby!!

Yours,

BillZ

[horns666]

Nice to see you back Billz!!!!

Nice to see you, Rick the Stone Johnson..

[horns666]

Ohh your other player has 9200 w. JFX-1..tell' em..to get the JFX-1. It ties/tunes everything together. It's MADE for that, and nothing else will do. Been there done that.

that's a package of dynomite!! Either you got a good sound man. If he has that rig with a full Marshal cab, VS a ANY 1-12 Combo, or he's humble enough to be playing fair. He could easily drown you out even with PA/monitors. But he's playing fair. These are facts.

Several years ago I seen this tribute band . One guitarst brought two Marshall cabs and a huge rack of tube shit. The other, who is far better, brought a Randall 1-12. The other guy drowned him out completely. The sound man pointed and said look. "You got 8 12s VS 1.. What am I supposed to do??!!". Shame really because the much LOUDER player truly sucked. The band tossed this asshole out and got someone to play fair. The guy with this humungus rack of tube shit ..sounded like a powerful bass amp with blown speakers. He did it on pupose too, so you couldn't hear the good player. These are facts. I was there.

My marshall rack/cabs get so loud it could bury any half stack or combo. A few players jam here with drums for years. You wouln't even know another amp was in the room. But I always play fair. Why play at all when you can't play fair. No not you John..in general. well we know these kinda players. I'm sure you do.