I like playing through modeling amps better and I sound better!!

[jgcable]

Ohh your other player has 9200 w. JFX-1..tell' em..to get the JFX-1. It ties/tunes everything together. It's MADE for that, and nothing else will do. Been there done that.

that's a package of dynomite!! Either you got a good sound man. If he has that rig with a full Marshal cab, VS a ANY 1-12 Combo, or he's humble enough to be playing fair. He could easily drown you out even with PA/monitors. But he's playing fair. These are facts.

Several years ago I seen this tribute band . One guitarst brought two Marshall cabs and a huge rack of tube shit. The other, who is far better, brought a Randall 1-12. The other guy drowned him out completely. The sound man pointed and said look. "You got 8 12s VS 1.. What am I supposed to do??!!". Shame really because the much LOUDER player truly sucked. The band tossed this asshole out and got someone to play fair. The guy with this humungus rack of tube shit ..sounded like a powerful bass amp with blown speakers. He did it on pupose too, so you couldn't hear the good player. These are facts. I was there.

My marshall rack/cabs get so loud it could bury any half stack or combo. A few players jam here with drums for years. You wouln't even know another amp was in the room. But I always play fair. Why play at all when you can't play fair. No not you John..in general. well we know these kinda players. I'm sure you do.

Hey Bill, the other guitar player has a Marshall 9200, Marshall JMP1 and a Boss GT10 using the 4 cable method. Its a great rig but the louder you turn it up the better it sounds. The sweet spot on that rig is loud enough to play an arena.

[horns666]

Hey Bill, the other guitar player has a Marshall 9200, Marshall JMP1 and a Boss GT10 using the 4 cable method. Its a great rig but the louder you turn it up the better it sounds. The sweet spot on that rig is loud enough to play an arena.

Oh hell yeah. i can use one stereo cab (trided it for first time), two cabs stereo, or four. It walks over anything. I had this for 20 years. I want to buy an exact duplicate. So I'll always have one. Nothing comes close in my book. You're right, The louder the better. The 8 Sovtek pushed 5881 is articulate, punch and crunch of Marshallness. I't like having two balanced 100 wt JVMs without any noise. I don't use delays that much anynore, and I discovered the secrets of midrange...that's where all that focus and tightness is. Half the tone is the player. Limp wristed players should NOT play metal...maybe jazz, blues or somethin'. Metal is aggression. If aggression is not in you ..step away from the Metal amps.

It's ironic that I play MUCH more like Van Halen than the guy in the VH trib (JMP-1). He's just learned/knows all the stuff. But he's a very passive, strummer. He's a great cover band player...but no fire at all. He was when we did our original thing 30 yrs ago. I'm absolute fire. I'm trying to get my kid back on board. He was, even more than me..but he met the poon, and plays like R&B jazz, fusion "chill" stuff..like Guthrie and CHON. Guthrie is great player/teacher. Hate his music. Bought it, burned and traded it. Shawn Lane..now that's fire ..or Al Di Meola. Vinny loves CHON . Everything must be CHON..they're the best to him nobody is close. whatever. They're good. To him they invented the wheel..I just see to burnouts that practice and play constantly..that's cool I guess. Not my language.

Top dog METAL guitarist is Jeff Loomis. He raised the bar so high 20 years ago. It goes over peoples heads. Like when Van Halen came out to older Zep and Stones kinda players. They didn't "feel" Van Halen. My's dad's coolest freind Bob..he was a great Cream, Stones, Zep, Guess who,..ect player. He was 100% great, but he hated VH in the early 80's. It was too much fast trickery to him without feel back then. Now he loves 'em in hindsight. Jeff is not blues based at all. I think most of us were. He came out all things Metal. Cool Vid of him and Tony Mac..nice. Tony uses H&K, Jeff uses Engl on the vid..does it matter...no. If they plugged into any of our stuff or a pignose/tube screamer, it would sound like them. I cultivated my own style. I have zero intrest in cover/tribute bands..except stuff like Chickenfoot doing Highway Star...Mr Big doin' Teenage wasteland.

[Tetsuo]

I want to try a helix. I am so intrigued.

Bill I sold a Marshall cab to a guy it was a limited Hendrix one. He had the rest of the stack. We were chatting and he was telling me how his son makes fun of his gear and how "we" play old men amps with tubes. His kid is in a fairly successful metal band and they have no amps to speak of. Your story reminded me of that. A fucking player can play anything. Dime played through garbage most of the time. I have a g and l blues boy that I can make sound evil through a fender. It is in the attack.

My son is named Jackson, yes a lot to do with grovers company. Hell he was conceived after a sabbath concert. He doesn't have the motor skills yet but he has a Jackson in his room and he loves banging strings on a loud amp. I have hope for that kid. 17 months and he headbangs when I play and it wasn't taught (not fond of him doing that so young).

[horns666]

Tets!! How are you my freind. You would kill me these days. I've lost alot of leverage..about 45 lb worth now. I was near my goal weight of 350. Then when I was around 265 ..my wife called me a fat fuck. Well not in those terms. But "fat fuck" is exactly what was on her face. But I didn't want to graduate to a size 40" in Levi. I have many old pairs of black 505s. I'm a 36", or a new 505..but I lost all my ass. I have zero ass. WTF is that?? My weight is ALL upper body torso, barrel chested..very thin long legs ..and fat pud.

But anywhoo, My son's first two syllable word was "gui-tah". He turned 21, on the 27th, and coming home from Kent , staying with his girl on Halloweenie. Oh, he just walked in. What he really wants is two things. A PS4 and Line 6 500, and that's it. But me and the Mrs helped him/family get a PS4 . His, 18 yr old bud Joey, is a speed fiend. Fastest sweeps I've ever seen from any pro..thus far. He's not a Riff kinda player though. He just blazes all day. I'm kinda both these days. But He insist on jamming here with his gear. My home is a music store. But NOPE, he must play his tweaked Line 6 500..period. He smokes with it..it absolutely sounds amazing. So fuck it. He is ruling his world.

My kid has the fastest left hand I've seen in person...ever. Vinny has alot of riffs too, its in his DNA. But This kid plays the fastest leads with a great ear..ever. I'm a good in-between-guy. But they look at me like I'm a dinosaur..a T-Rex no doubt. But It'll be nice to record with both of them. Just to assist, arrange, ..or solo with, if anything. They both play mean drums. So we got Bass, drums, solos, rythms, riff, keys galore. I've noodles around a keyboard in my absence set to piano. That helped my guitar playing like crazy. Sometimes I'll have an idea, play it on piano..then tranfer that to guitar. That door blew open just over 2 years ago.

I play with a Line 6 spider II all night every night. Till my ass (no ass) goes numb. I play write the fastest riffs I ever did. But I don't record or remeber any of it. If I try to play any of my older original shit. I have to make my hands, mind, playing slow down..to about halfspeed. Yet this kid is faster...fuck him. Just solos..he shreds very well in his comfort zone. But he's 18.... I bless him!

[Tetsuo]

Yeah I fuck around on a cheap spider also. It was 30 bones and doesn't wake anyone up and at whisper volumes sounds ok since everything is compressed.

10 year old step daughter is playing bass. She plays it in orchestra so I make her play with me. Damn natural I've been working for myself so I have been home playing nonstop the past few months. It has been great.

[horns666]

Yeah I fuck around on a cheap spider also. It was 30 bones and doesn't wake anyone up and at whisper volumes sounds ok since everything is compressed.

10 year old step daughter is playing bass. She plays it in orchestra so I make her play with me. Damn natural I've been working for myself so I have been home playing nonstop the past few months. It has been great.

That's awesome. Yes, it is great! She reads music too. Something I never knew. But my son learned and showed me the basics so I actually understand and play various modes. That's where the piano comes in. Really helped hear and see the guitar in a different way.

I cultivate/invent a style all my own on bass in mid 80's. Everyone and their mom wanted me to join or start a band. There's only two local muscians I was happy doing that for. Guitarist, especially cover players have it made via youtube. I always learned by ear, even when in that VH trib.

Tets, John G, guys..my LP and Blackstar amp..you'll love those amps. It's the BEST sounding combo I've ever owned or played. it's a player friendly amp without any resistance at all. For the first time in my life, I learned a note perfect solo. John's Syke's Whitesnake's "Is This Love" solo. Just because my tone sounds/feels EXACTLY like that..that's what I hear instantly. So I had to learn it. Certain amps make think of certain songs. Soldano SLO will always be "Blackout" for ex. Mesa Mrk III Gary Moore's End of the World intro..that I can do convincingly well. Prolly better than Eruption IMO.

Cool Now I just named the only three solos I ever learned. I should say one solo I learned, the other two, I just play whatever and make it sound like it.

I can be a very good cover guitarist if I wanted to be. I just avaoided from learning all my "guitar heroes" so I wouldn't be a clone. I also strayed from things everyone would do. Like that fast right hand my son has. It's cool he can do it that fast! But that thrash gallop, sweeping, tapping..is so cliche. Unless a cover song calls for it. I tap like crazy..but it's all my own, and a huge part of my playing style.

But learning that solo, actually gave me more respect to John Sykes. It's amazing. I never even gave much a shit about the song. But that solo is a masterpiece. Usually learning a song would take the mysrey from it..not the case with that one. Syke's wide vibrato and restraint just rules! Now, it's something I want to add to my own playing. I got my squeals and slides from him, Oliva and EVH. Our generation drinks from the same well.

[pianoguyy]

I have a modeler, and participate in the forum for it. I won't repeat some of lengthy in-depth science that they talk about, but it is some interesting stuff.
Some of the obvious stuff, like air being pushed and volume creating the illusion of more bass.

But some of the stuff that we don't think about...
Like modelers often replicate a mic'd speaker, and most of us listen to our own stuff non-mic'd. Of course the two will sound different to us. Yet, the consumer only hears the end product. They can't tell the difference.
Or the fact that tube amps heat up and produce different tones when turned to 11. But how many of us actually turn their volume that high? So, with a modeler, we dime everything but then turn the headphone volume to an acceptable level - it sounds different because you never heard real tubes glowing that hot before unless you use an attenuator.
Sometimes some real common sense stuff that no one thinks of when saying "but they don't sound the same."


I got the idea to skip the guitar amp because my keyboards always went straight to the pa. But I could never get the guitar sound I wanted without the amp. So I gave up trying it.
Until recently, after I needed to make a change to my 20+ year old rig. I visited the 'ampless' idea again. Only this time, the technology is now available to make it sound right.

And I am never going back to amps again!

[Hellbat]

Sykes does have a killer vibrato and tasty bends, but for me the vibrato/bend master will always be Gary Moore. He doesn't just have his one vibrato, he mixes it up depending on the song and (to me) it's always just right for the overall vibe. Stuff like Dunluce/Blood of Emeralds, The Loner, etc. have just so much feel in them. Then when he has you hooked on the feel he blasts you in the face with some fire using a crazy fast run.

I'm with you Pianoguyy on the modelers being there now. Luckily I didn't start gigging until about 7 years ago and when I started it was with a tube 1x12 combo, so I never really had that 4x12(s) pushing air behind me. So I use a FRFR monitor and plug straight in to the PA. Now, I'm playing in a band that covers a wide range of material so I can match whatever equipment the song calls for and get in the right ballpark tonewise. And even people that don't play music appreciate the fact that "It sounded just like the original." As soon as you realize you are hearing out of your monitor(s) is what the audience hears and can adjust to playing that way, you are set. Unfortunately the other guitarist uses the DI out on his Fender Champ, and uses one OD pedal, so he only has two sounds from the PA and both aren't very good amp tones. I'd love us to go all in-ears and take that last step, but I don't think others in the band would be willing/able to go there financially.

[paranoid]

HellBat You could never Harness the tones of the death Kitty through in ears!!!. what are you thinking?

[Tetsuo]

Sykes does have a killer vibrato and tasty bends, but for me the vibrato/bend master will always be Gary Moore. He doesn't just have his one vibrato, he mixes it up depending on the song and (to me) it's always just right for the overall vibe. Stuff like Dunluce/Blood of Emeralds, The Loner, etc. have just so much feel in them. Then when he has you hooked on the feel he blasts you in the face with some fire using a crazy fast run.

I'm with you Pianoguyy on the modelers being there now. Luckily I didn't start gigging until about 7 years ago and when I started it was with a tube 1x12 combo, so I never really had that 4x12(s) pushing air behind me. So I use a FRFR monitor and plug straight in to the PA. Now, I'm playing in a band that covers a wide range of material so I can match whatever equipment the song calls for and get in the right ballpark tonewise. And even people that don't play music appreciate the fact that "It sounded just like the original." As soon as you realize you are hearing out of your monitor(s) is what the audience hears and can adjust to playing that way, you are set. Unfortunately the other guitarist uses the DI out on his Fender Champ, and uses one OD pedal, so he only has two sounds from the PA and both aren't very good amp tones. I'd love us to go all in-ears and take that last step, but I don't think others in the band would be willing/able to go there financially.

What modeler are you playing? Do you like the FRFR monitor? I am really really thinking of going helix and that route.

[paranoid]

I play fractal and love it. I also have a hd 500 pod but it is not even close to the axe fx. unless the Helix is really really good I will stay with fractal. I my self run direct and monitor through the vocal wedges, I see no reason to carry all that stuff!

[Tetsuo]

I don't think the helix is better than the axe. I think it is cheaper and easier to program, and on par with tone but not better Perse'

[Hellbat]

I'm using an Axe-FX 2 through a Yamaha DXR-10 monitor. I tried a few different 10" monitors at the music store and found I preferred the Yamaha. (I tried mackie and QSC as well.)

[Tetsuo]

I have some Yamaha studio monitors that I love. Yamaha has some really great gear. If the Helix is any good you have to chalk that one up to Yamaha too. The old sold and/Yamaha t100was awesome imho for the $$$. I am jumping on the Helix bandwagon and going to get a frfr. If the helix doesn't suit me I know I can flip it and I will grab an Axe Fx. Hey go to Reverd no buy my gear lol. Fund my addiction!

[Hellbat]

If you don't gel with the Helix, look into the Fractal AX-8. It's a little cheaper than the Helix and has a couple of limitations compared to the AxeFX 2, but it's using the same "math" that the Axe uses so the sound quality will be there. It's not shipping yet, but here is a vid from the LA Amp Show...