So many amps... so little time...lol...

[jgcable]

So my 80's arena rock metal band IMPULSE has another gig Saturday. 2 guitars, keyboards, bass, drums, lead singer. For the last year I have been using mainly a Rivera Suprema 1 x 12 mic'd or a Peavey 6505+ 1 x 12 mic'd. I prefer the Rivera because its easier to hear live. For one of the gigs I snuck in a Bogner powered Line 6 Spidervalve 1 x 12 combo. That was the most fun gig for me to play. I just love playing out of modeling amps and its so nice not to have to tap dance.
Over the last few nights I have been trying to decide on what amp to use for this next show. Metaltronix, Marshall, Rivera, Fender, Peavey or Line 6.
I am seriously considering using my Line 6 Vetta 2 x 12 combo. It absolutely nails the 80's metal tones. It doesn't have as much presence live as my other amps so at times it makes it a little hard for me to hear on stage but the tone is there in spades. The drummer and bass player in my band hit and play VERY hard. I think the key to using it is how its mic'd into the mains and the monitors. I don't like the direct AIR outs. They sound thin to me. The best "mic'd" sound is for me to use my Behringer Ultra G 4 x 12 cabinet simulator direct box out to the board. That 4 x 12 cab emulation really fattens up the feed to the board.
The Metaltronix is just too powerful for most gigs. The Marshall sounds fantastic but its a little too 70's sounding distortion. The Rivera is perfect... the 6505+ is hard to hear live for me... the Classic 30 sounds incredible but its more of a 70's classic rock sound like the Marshall. The amp I play the most at band rehearsals and at home is the Vetta.
All of my amps sound good... decisions decisions decisions....

[markD]

If you prefer the Rivera use that one!!!!

Amp-wise these days, I am almost in 1974 - I have gone OLD SCHOOL. I play a '65 Bassman head and matching 2x12 cab (all original) with some stomp boxes. My tone has been cleaning up over the last couple of years. I run a compressor kind of hot and hit my overdrive hard, but keep the gain on the OD around 8 o'clock. I am also playing odd-ball guitars these days: PRS Vela, Gretsch Duo Jet, and a 60s Fender Tele. LOTS of twang mixed with my crunch - talk about cutting through the mix.

It's a lot fun isn't it?

I have options too - though not as many "different" sounds as you. I still have the three Rivera amps, M60, M100, S120, the Marshall 3203 (LOVE this amp), the '63 Fender Tremolux (35 watts of beautiful 6L6 Fender power - almost the ultimate gig amp), and the Bassman rig. I am SERIOUSLY considering an AXE-FX or a Helix within this year. If my new band starts gigging heavily like the last one, then I don't want to take a vintage Fender rig out for every show. I COULD get a Kemper and profile my Bassman rig, that's an option too. I'll be researching and exploring a more technological option if things pickup.

[jgcable]

If you prefer the Rivera use that one!!!!

Amp-wise these days, I am almost in 1974 - I have gone OLD SCHOOL. I play a '65 Bassman head and matching 2x12 cab (all original) with some stomp boxes. My tone has been cleaning up over the last couple of years. I run a compressor kind of hot and hit my overdrive hard, but keep the gain on the OD around 8 o'clock. I am also playing odd-ball guitars these days: PRS Vela, Gretsch Duo Jet, and a 60s Fender Tele. LOTS of twang mixed with my crunch - talk about cutting through the mix.

It's a lot fun isn't it?

I have options too - though not as many "different" sounds as you. I still have the three Rivera amps, M60, M100, S120, the Marshall 3203 (LOVE this amp), the '63 Fender Tremolux (35 watts of beautiful 6L6 Fender power - almost the ultimate gig amp), and the Bassman rig. I am SERIOUSLY considering an AXE-FX or a Helix within this year. If my new band starts gigging heavily like the last one, then I don't want to take a vintage Fender rig out for every show. I COULD get a Kemper and profile my Bassman rig, that's an option too. I'll be researching and exploring a more technological option if things pickup.

I always narrow it down between the Rivera and another amp. Prior to a show...I get my friends to listen and they usually confirm what I already know... the Rivera is clearer and just all around better sounding than any of my other amps. Its just not the most fun amp to play 80's metal solo's on for me. I prefer the Vetta for 80's metal solo's because using the 2 amps at once feature ... for instance.. a Peavey 5150 and a Mesa Dual Rectifier mixed together with a combination of V30's and T75 4 x 12 cab simulation with a tape delay and a double tracker going at the same time REALLY make playing 80's guitar solo's fun because it sounds EXACTLY like the record. My Rivera probably has 1/2 the gain of the Vetta rig. That's why its clearer. The tone is awesome though. 80's arena rock metal almost always requires a SERIOUS over the top amount of gain if you want it to sound correct. I think the ultimate live rig for me would be the Vetta 2 x 12 and the Rivera 1 x 12 together but that's just too much of a complicated set up for the places we play. Even though we pack every place we play the clubs are usually on the small side. Too small for even a 1/2 stack. That's why I use combo's mic'd.

[markD]

Gotcha. Ever boost the front of the Rivera with an OD or clean boost? I did that for a while. I used a BOSS Hyper-Fuzz set to clean boost. I liked that pedal because it had a 2 band EQ. I HATED the fuzz though which is why I sold it....

[jgcable]

Gotcha. Ever boost the front of the Rivera with an OD or clean boost? I did that for a while. I used a BOSS Hyper-Fuzz set to clean boost. I liked that pedal because it had a 2 band EQ. I HATED the fuzz though which is why I sold it....

Yes. I have several pedals. A Maxon OD808, a Big Muff PI with Tone Wicker, a BBE 427, various tube screamers and clean boost pedals. Every pedal I use tends to suck the bottom end out of the Rivera. Even the OD808 set at 0 gain. I get more gain but the Rivera loses the clarity. I also have to tap dance on up to 3 pedals to switch from a clean tone to a gain tone with solo boost. The Rivera sounds the best with nothing plugged into it. My Boss GT10 is fairly transparent with it. The Rivera doesn't have a high gain 80's metal type gain. Its more like mid 90's. Believe it or not.... with my 80's arena rock metal band that actually makes a difference. Especially when soloing. Still... I have used the Rivera for at least 8 gigs so far with no issues of any kind other than me wanting for more gain and saturation.

[markD]

Cool, I gotcha on that. Mine are 80's all the way - think Scorpions' "Rhythm of Love" tone - but I know what you mean. You can play open chords and have that note separation with the gain cranked. I haven't played the Suprema first hand, but I am sure it's not too different regarding the note clarity.

[jgcable]

Cool, I gotcha on that. Mine are 80's all the way - think Scorpions' "Rhythm of Love" tone - but I know what you mean. You can play open chords and have that note separation with the gain cranked. I haven't played the Suprema first hand, but I am sure it's not too different regarding the note clarity.

I don't thing a lot of players realize this but there is a fairly large difference in tone and amount of gain between Slash and Aldridge or Sabo and Kee Marcello or Glen Tipton, Zakk Wylde and Warren Dimartini. Or Phil Collen compared to Richie Sambora.
Players often refer to Slash's tone as clean and pure. Same thing with Aldridge. That couldn't be farther from the truth. Slash uses a TON of gain, reverb and delay. Same thing with Aldridge. Snake Sabo is actually the cleanest tone out of all of them. Marcello is pure but with lots of delay. Warren's gain structure is full of gain, compression and delay. Glen Tipton on the other hand is very clean with minimal delay. Especially the earlier Priest.
Phil Collen almost always has a lot of delay, there is a chorus mixed in there and a lot of compression and a ton of gain. Richie Sambora went through a lot of tonal transforming through the years with Bon Jovi. He uses a lot of delay usually and a gain structure similar to Kee Marcello. And lets not forget one of the kings of SCHMUTZ..... George Lynch. The guitar tone and set up in Under Lock and Key and Back from the Attack is DRENCHED in everything with the most gain you could ever want. Tons of multiple delays too. If you want to nail Dokken tones live you need to pull out all the stomp boxes and squeeze every ounce of gain you can out of an amp.

[markD]

HAHAHAHAHA - yeah, too much for me. Man, I am almost 100% dry. I am so glad I don't do the cover thing because of what you are talking about. Of course, I make a lot less money, but I don't have to sweat covering the tones either.....

[jgcable]

HAHAHAHAHA - yeah, too much for me. Man, I am almost 100% dry. I am so glad I don't do the cover thing because of what you are talking about. Of course, I make a lot less money, but I don't have to sweat covering the tones either.....

Yea... it sucks. My classic rock band is way more fun. I had a gig 2 weeks ago and my rig was a Peavey Classic 30 tweed head into a 4 x 12 cab with a Morley Wah out in front for 2 songs and an LPB-1 in the loop for solo boost. I did all my tonal changes with my guitars volume knob.

With my 80's metal band I have a super high gain tone that I built that is generic and can cover most of the songs we play. I have to use lots of delays, chorus's flangers, pitch harmonizers etc..... Its a generally LOUD band. The songs are loud, the band members all play loud or hit loud, the singer sings loud. The lack of dynamics actually makes it tiring for me. The crowds are huge though and they seem to love it. I think its the lack of alcohol that gets me bored by the middle of the second set. Everybody is getting more and more juiced up and all I am focusing on is how sloppy everybody is getting because all I drink is water.

[markD]

HAHAHAHAHA - yeah that totally sucks. As I have gotten older, we have moved - naturally - into doing more or a southern rock/classic rock type of thing. My playing got bluesier, the singer's phrasing got a little more country-like...it's just where we went naturally. It's still loud, but not crazy loud like the last band. Doing originals, we're only playing 45-60 minute sets so we can have a bit of fun before and after.

[AAEA]

I'm pretty much given in and going to get a Kemper profiling with the power section all in one deal. like $2350 in all but I'm tired of having a room full of amps and having all my money tied up in them.

[Nightbat]

The Metaltronix is just too powerful for most gigs.

JG...



Fuck' em!

Rape the audience with every last Watt you can push out of that amp
Teach them that not bringing enough friends to hide behind from the first time you strike a chord is their own fault for leaving with bleeding ears
If the soundguy complains, sock him and let him wake up with that beer bottle he was paying more attention to than the FOH in his ass
and when the manager comes,.. he's gonna find out in person that that big cross behind the drum riser has a function

ROCK 'N ROLL!!!

[mantis]

JG...



Fuck' em!

Rape the audience with every last Watt you can push out of that amp
Teach them that not bringing enough friends to hide behind from the first time you strike a chord is their own fault for leaving with bleeding ears
If the soundguy complains, sock him and let him wake up with that beer bottle he was paying more attention to than the FOH in his ass
and when the manager comes,.. he's gonna find out in person that that big cross behind the drum riser has a function

ROCK 'N ROLL!!!

I Almost spit my coffee out LOL , Love the way you think man, ROCK ON!!!!

[mantis]

Yes. I have several pedals. A Maxon OD808, a Big Muff PI with Tone Wicker, a BBE 427, various tube screamers and clean boost pedals. Every pedal I use tends to suck the bottom end out of the Rivera. Even the OD808 set at 0 gain. I get more gain but the Rivera loses the clarity. I also have to tap dance on up to 3 pedals to switch from a clean tone to a gain tone with solo boost. The Rivera sounds the best with nothing plugged into it. My Boss GT10 is fairly transparent with it. The Rivera doesn't have a high gain 80's metal type gain. Its more like mid 90's. Believe it or not.... with my 80's arena rock metal band that actually makes a difference. Especially when soloing. Still... I have used the Rivera for at least 8 gigs so far with no issues of any kind other than me wanting for more gain and saturation.

I would ditch all the pedal and the GT10 and go get the GT100. Use the Rivera as your main amp, sell off all others , buy a new guitar with the extra money you will have after you clean house and your set.
The Rivera sounds like to me it's your favorite amp and works best. With the GT100, you can use an array of better sounding then the GT10's selection of OD pedals. The Gt100 is more organic sounding and damn near sounds exactly like stomp boxes. I did some comparisons and was shocked in the overall outcome. I also find Boss Multi Effects to sound way better then the Line 6 stuff. I mean tone and sound is totally personal but to me the Boss is the sound and the Line 6 is a copy of the sound.
I'd wire the GT100 in the 4 cable method which since you own a GT10 you probably already know how to do. This way you can use your Rivera preamp section and place all effects exactly where you want them in your signal chain.
I'm totally not fond of Modeling technology, I never heard a modeler pull off the tone of any amp correctly. The Boss GT100 is no different to me it sucks trying to use any of the modeling amps inside. Thats an opinion that is not shared by many. I like the way my amp sounds and don't like any of the preamps the GT100 offer which in many ways are an improvement over the GT10 which I had before the GT100. I also owned the GT8.
Being in a Cover band playing different kinds of music I can't see using anything but a device like the Gt100 with a solid amp like your Rivera. And when your wired in the 4 cable method, you have the option to use the Amp modelers in the GT100 and get the sound you want. You might enjoy most or all of them which might really fit the bill with what music you are playing.
The Peavey 6505+ is more of a 1 trick pony IMO which it does great. If it's not giving you the stage volume you require in a band with heavy players then adding a 2 x 12 cab to it might fit that bill if you are leaning that way over the Rivera which I don't think you are but that head got plenty of power and mid's to cut in a live band with a better cabinet or even just adding another 1x12 cab probably would make all the difference.

Having all pedals I so hear you on the tap dancing which with the Line 6 you don't have to do. Thats the same as if you used the amp you love in the Rivera and used what you already own in the Gt10. The GT10 is a pretty fantastic multi Effects Processor floor board. You need nothing else when using it in the 4CM. But I think you would enjoy moving on from that and getting the Gt100.

Like to know how you move forward.

[mantis]

I'm pretty much given in and going to get a Kemper profiling with the power section all in one deal. like $2350 in all but I'm tired of having a room full of amps and having all my money tied up in them.

For me this is a topic that I'm not totally fond of. Yes the Kemper is pretty damn cool but for me I like the real thing and don't need a room full of amps. I found 1 amp that does everything I need it to do and when that day comes where I need to get into something else I will. Don't get me wrong man, I'm a tone chaser so looking and playing different amps is fantastic. Owning the Kemper would be a very affordable and space savings way to find the right amp or amps for you. But in the end I would not want the Kemper as I would want that amp that the Kemper is profiled after.
So if I purchased the Kemper, I think thats how I would use it. I would connect it to my favorite cabinet and get as many different profiles as possible and really search for my tone in it. Then once I achieve that goal like lets say the Bogner Ubershall was the amp I fell in love with on the Kemper , I would then want to own it and not just Profile or really Model fake it.
I never played the Kemper and I have seen Youtube video's of people comparing it to the real thing and IMO I never heard it get it exact. I'd say it's closer then anything else I ever heard that to me thats not "good enough" which I'm not one of those guys who likes to settle. I'm ok with not having and saving for what I want.
I'd like to hear your opinions on the Kemper since you already own several amps now. I'd like to hear how you feel about the response and tone.

Good luck with it anyway man, we all have to walk our now path.