Axe Fx Ultra vs AX8

[TKEblue]

Hey guys! Its been quite a while.. I'm hoping to get some help from some of you that are more familiar with Fractal stuff.

I was originally planning to get a schecter KM7, used hd500, and some other things but started checking out other stuff and here I am.. it's still in contention but it's kind of taken the back seat now. Also in contention is the Helix, which imo, sounds almost just as good. The helix is just different, and that comes down to a more personal level of preference so I'm not including that.

I want to know why you would choose one over the other. Since a used Ultra is several hundred less than a new AX8, it makes up for needing a foot controller and I would probably get a used hd500 with the ultra to act as the controller/backup unit.

Also looking at the Alto TS212 for whatever I get, but I'm open to other input here as well.

[XSvmbraDensX]

I run one of the Behringer FCB1010 foot controllers for my kemper and it's super cheap. That being said, I just saw Arsis a few months ago and both guitarists were running a helix straight into the FOH and it sounded amazing. The HD500's are cool but my experience with them and other people I've talked to say that it requires a lot of time to tweak the models on the Pod to actually get them to sound realistic, but after they're tweaked they do sound quite good. The AX8 I would assume is just as good as the normal rack mounted Fractals. Concerning the Alto's, I've heard nothing but good things about them for the price. I got one of the EVZLX12P's for my kemper and I do love the way it sounds, but I read a lot of modeler/processor users think the Altos sound just fine. Just my two cents!

[TKEblue]

Used hd500s go for about $200-250 and can be used as a midi controller so if I was getting the Ultra that would be my first choice for a controller because it brings much more to the table than the other options, imo. Plus I would probably make pretty good use of the headphone jack.
And yeah, I've read/heard it takes a bit to dial in a good sound on the hd500, but I've heard some killer tones come from them. I would also probably make pretty good use out of the headphone jack.

I really don't know anything about PA monitors, but had read the Alto truesonics have a very flat response. I'll look into that EV monitor as well.

That's cool about the helix, to me it sounds great as well. I'm not really asking about it though because it's more subjective. I'm trying to make a more apples to apples comparison between the fractals. Basically, the new features the AX8 has over the Ultra vs the missing features of the AX8 that the Ultra has.

Thanks for the reply

[paranoid]

I have Had the line 6 stuff and the Helix could work, but the hd 500 is a kids toy compared to the Fractal stuff. The ultra is a great effects unit, I had one but sold it. now I have an axe fx II XL and an AX-8. The XL is king of the hill as modelers go, but for live the AX-8 is miles ahead of the ultra. the amp tones and speaker similations have come a log way since the ultra. the scene feature of the AX-8 is the cats meow when it comes to changing effects mid song. the foot switches can be assigned to most any thing, the ability to connect 4 expression pedals. the almost unlimited routing of effects and connections. I would find an AX-8 user near you that would let you try it out, I am sure you would like it. Get on the Fractal forum and start a post to see if there are any users close to your area.

[xenophobe]

Unless you're 100% home studio or pro touring, I don't see any reason why your first choice wouldn't be an AX8... unless maybe you're a hardcore analog pedal junkie and don't want to add to the floor space or a rack poweramp frfr type guy who has rack space to fill.

If you're running a tube head and cab, I think I'd rather have the AX8. But that all depends on your particular gear setup... simplicity for amateur gigging.

edit: Rumor has it Eventide H9000 might come out soon, if you're into that type of thing. lol

[TKEblue]

Thanks for the replies guys. Will probably get the AX8 then

The only reason I wasn't sold on the AX8 is because of all the complaints about the limitations of the dsp compared to the rack units. I'm sure it would be enough for me, but my experience with gear is fairly limited so I maybe don't know what I'm missing.

I have been exclusively at home for a few years now, have only went out and jammed with friends a few times.. but I've been writing lately and talking with other local guys and hope to get something going again at some point.

Ideally I would use the fractal as a standalone unit. Super simple and easy to set up, easy on the back.

Lol even if I were into that type of thing, I can only assume that coming from Eventide, there's 0 chance I could afford it. Probably a transcription error... meant to say, Eventide $9000

Oh, and to record using the AX8, do you have to use s/pdif or can't you just go xlr into an interface?

Edit; Just confirmed that my interface has spdif as well so I guess it doesn't matter much. Which is preferable though?

[paranoid]

the dsp on the AX-8 can be a problem if you have an Axe Fx II and want it to be the same. compared to the Helix dsp is not a problem. Most of the complainers are not using the AX-8 for straight forward live playing, they want there cake and eat it to. The amp tones of the AX-8 are way head off the ultra, and dsp is about the same. every one should understand the AX-8 at less then 1/2 the price of an mfc and Axe Fx XL+ is not going to be exactly the same. Come to my place in Florida and I will let you try An ax fx II, an XL, an AX-8, and get the friend that has my old ultra to come over and you can compare. I play live with the AX-8 and so does my son. This is my sons rig. It doesn't get much easier then this for a complete live rig. Just plug in to the house and rock.

[TKEblue]

So Paranoid, if you had to choose between the ultra and the AX8 for both studio and live, which would it be?

This will be both for me. But with my expectations, I don't think I'll be dissapointed. Really, I don't think I would be disappointed with any of the three..

The way I understand it is this;

With the helix you can use multiple instances of similar pedals, amps and cabs, until you run out of resources.
With the ultra you can do the same.
The AX8 has the same dsp as the helix, but it's running a lot higher...fidelity(?) Which uses more resources, limiting you to one instance of each effect type, and one amp sim, but still has the ability for dual cabs. Also you can still run out of resources even within the forced limitations.

Does that sound about right?

Doesn't sound so bad to me, I could definitely live with those limitations..but the stink that some have made over it made me question it. It does reduce some of the flexibility, but when you consider the number of amps and cabs it has compared to the Helix, seems like you have way more possibilities for tone shaping.

[paranoid]

The ultra is a great machine, but the amp modeling lacks greatly compared to the AX-8. if you compare the amp tones of the ultra to the helix that would be a closer comparison. for effects alone the ultra is very strong. I only spent a couple of days with the helix. I did like the scribble strips and the color led lights but the color screen looks like a kids video game. the tones always seemed to like clarity in comparison to the AX-8. yes the AX-8 will only play 1 amp at a time but you do not need 2. when you use 2 at the same time with the helix it still sounds like one tone, it will not sound like 2 guitar players. As far as for the studio, the AX-8 sounds better then the ultra or the helix. The fractal effects are by far better then the helix, even with the AX-8 reverbs on low Quality and a low density they sound like studio effects. The Ax-8 does not have a built in interface but will work fine with a external interface. If recording is going to be the main use I would recommend a used Axe Fx II if money is an issue, the usb recording and built in interface is great and you can record 4 separate tracks in to your daw trough the usb. I am sold on the Fractal line and sold all my other gear. There products quality and support are second to none.

[Bryan]

I'm playing live and I've had the AX-8 for about a month.

If there is anything more that the Ultra can do, I have no idea how I would be able to hear it in a live mix.

I bought the AX-8 for price and all in one portability.

Sound wise I cannot find anything to complain about.

Other than not being able to run two amps at the same time, anything else you need to do, the AX-8 can easily handle.

In fact, I'm just about to ditch all my pedals and just use it for live work.

[TKEblue]

I've messed around with dual amps and cabs in Guitar Rig. I mostly do it because I don't have the full version and it's hard to get what I want with the amp selection. Basically you can mask the inadequacies of both of the amps by using amps with contrasting strengths and weaknesses. Kind of like using two different mics or two different mic placements. And yeah, the timing of both amps is perfectly in sync so it sounds like one sound.

With the quality difference and selection I don't think it would bother me, should be able to find what I'm looking for. I just didn't know if it was just that much better with the fractals that you would be missing out.

The easy, all in one-ness of it is pretty alluring. Seems pretty compact too.

[Tetsuo]

AX8. The Ultra is like the Xbox 360. Great unit but old technology. Now mind you, that ultra will be just fine... the ultra would kill likely anything you have heard modeling wise from an HD500. The AX8 is way better. I had an AxeFx2 and scaled down to the AX8 because it serves my purposes better. You can tap out the CPU but you have to work at it. Take a look at this thread it explains the CPU issues very well.

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/reverb-settings-blind-test.113538/

You shouldn't run into a problem. If you do get a reverb pedal because that is the CPU hog if you put it on high res if you don't guess what you are all good.