Do you use a modeling amp live in your metal band? If so... which one?

[jgcable]

Please don't respond if you aren't in a rock or metal band playing live in clubs.
I see more and more modeling amps live and its getting pretty hard to tell the difference. I have yet to see a Fractal live in the local clubs I play at. I have seen one Kemper but that was a guy who was playing solo to a backing track. Most of the modeling amps I see are Line 6, Vox and Fender Mustangs.

[clifffclaven]

I used a pod pro/Marshall 9200 for years. For rock and metal, modelers do a great job, I just didn't like any of the 'in between' tones, like blues, or light distortion. Hi gain sounded great, so did super clean tones. I'm sure the new stuff is way better, but I'm 100% happy now with my jmp1.

[pianoguyy]

First, for you and any future readers/posters - let's make sure we know that there is a difference between an amp modeler and a modeling amp.
Amp modeling is a technology. Modeling amps are amps that include amp modeling. Although, usually the standalone amp modelers will give more options than what is included in a modeling amp.


Now, with that out of the way...
Full disclosure, I have different "situations" that I am in. Not all of them are rock/metal, and not all perform live. Therefore, more versatility is needed than when I was in one band with one sound.

I use an amp modeler, and I have for 3 years (it replaced a 20-30 year old rig). No amp. I run direct to the PA. When I supply my own gear, I use Line 6 Pod HD500. But there are times when I just show up with a guitar and the rest is supplied.
**I also have a 500X and a Pro X. The floor model is for backup, and the rack unit is for a particular group I play in. Everyone's gear is in one big rack space and sync'd up with the lights and stuff.


As to Fractal - think about 1985. How many Jackson guitars were floating around. Not too many, right? They were the high end, high priced, rarity that few had. Just look at the serial numbers, we know exactly how many were made.
Fractals are no different. They are used by the few, there just aren't that many floating around. Fractals are nice, but they have many options available that I would never use therefore I have no reason to pay for it. But they also lack some of the options that L6 has.

The one thing I can say about the L6 gear that I learned from "business" channels - people may consider the HD500 as cheap gear because it costs $500, but they got one hell of a good deal with their manufacturing contract. They said that if they were to make it today (or if they ever need to change manufacturers), that there is simply no way it would be in that same price range.
Which, could explain why the Helix is $1500.

[jgcable]

One of the reasons I am asking... other than pure interest... is.... my current band is an 80's Arena Rock metal band. 6pc. 2 lead guitars, bass, drums, keyboard and lead singer. We play loud arena rock metal. The other guitar player was using a Marshall 9200/JMP1 1/2 stack rig. I would use various tube half stacks.
For the last 6 months or so.. he switched from the 9200/JMP1 and bought a Fender Mustang IV V2 1/2 stack. He got the entire rig brand new for around $500 or less.
He has been using it live in our band and several other bands he is in. He even uses it in the studio for recording.
Before I get started... my band has a huge PA system, thousands of watts, separate monitor mixes and monitors all over the stage. Everything is mic'd.
Anyway... since he has been using it live I have had an aweful time balancing the 2 guitar levels live. My tube amps.. no matter how small they are (Lately I have been using a Peavey Triple X EFX 40 1 x 12 combo) always seem to dominate the mix... especially in solo's. Its just extremely difficult to balance a loud tube amp signal and a loud modeling amp signal. It always sounds out of balance.. especially on stage.
I am thinking the answer is to just use my Line 6 HD147 live. I am thinking that having 2 modeling amps will give the band a better blended sound.
A few weeks ago I saw his other band and they sounded great. One guitar player was using a VOX modeling head through a no name 2 x 12 cab. Dave was using his Mustang IV through the Mustang 4 x 12 cab. They were playing metal.. they didn't even have their guitar amps mic'd and it sounded great. Yea.. the amps were turned up pretty loud but it really had a nice quality tone.

[jgcable]

[QUOTE=pianoguyy;1659928]First, for you and any future readers/posters - let's make sure we know that there is a difference between an amp modeler and a modeling amp.
Amp modeling is a technology. Modeling amps are amps that include amp modeling. Although, usually the standalone amp modelers will give more options than what is included in a modeling amp.

Thanks for the clarification...

I am talking about Modeling Amps. For example... Line 6 Spidervalve or Vetta or Fender Mustang or a Line 6 XT Live through a FRFR speaker or a Line 6 HD500 or a Digitech GNX3000 powered through a guitar amp. Power can be tubes or SS or hybrid. Combo's or 1/2 stacks or full stacks. Bottom line is the tone has to be coming from a Modeling Amp.

[pianoguyy]

Then I am disqualified from answering because I go direct.

But as to the "cutting through the mix" issue...
The L6 stuff added a "Global Equalizer" in the latest firmware. Some people use it for room shaping (as it was intended). But most of the guys use it to cut the 3khz range and 100hz range. It helps clean up some of the "nasties" so that the guitars can be louder in the mix.
But, I believe that is typically for the guys that go direct or use an FRFR.


And, I should note...
Part of the problem with "new tech" is that too many use the "old ways" with new tech and the mixture doesn't always mesh.
For example, modelers should be producing the "final" sound. Meaning, they produce the pa sound, not the stage sound. Modelers simulate an amp, cab AND mic. If you then try adding an amp, cab, and mic to that sound... You can see where that could be a problem.

If you are using a modeler, go direct. You can use amps/monitors/etc on stage to hear yourself, but the PA signal should come straight from the modeler.

[PowerTube]

I have some input, but I'm not currently in a band, so.....

[Patt]

Well, This is a great topic!!!

Been through the gamut of rigs (which I won't go into the tedium of describing) But, Ive been direct and Inear for about 4-5 years now.
It started with a small pickup gig and running my GT 100 direct into a DI and on to the PA. That got me interested in the whole direct thing. Then to a pod 500X (much better) and finally to my current Kemper set up.
Ill say this: the hardest part was getting used to the sound of my guitar in my ears, its like a headphone mix where the guitar is too 'close' or 'immediate' no room sound or smoothness that makes the notes glue together. I tweaked a long time to get a sound that i can live with in my ears but sounds good out front

but,

out front in the PA? golden, best most consistent tones Ive had, no mic placement issues no 'guitar isn't in the mix' etc. It takes a bit for old school soundmen to accept but by the end of the night they usually appreciate being able to 'mix' and not just play damage control getting over the stage wash.

Does it 'cut through the mix'? yes as long as your sounds are good and you don't shoot yourself in the foot with bad tones. 'Bedroom' tone is easy to get in any setting.

Its awesome for me if I don't have ears I run it back through a monitor mix or bring a small powered wedge.

I play clubs big and small with an 80's trip as well as a heavy original act.

[MountainDog]

I'm in a cover band playing rock/metal/alternative/dance at bars, used a Line 6 Vetta 2x12 combo with the vetta 2x12 extra cabinet for around 10 years. Tried the midi controlled Marshall JVM 410 and midi switching with a Engl powerball II, but didn't have all the flexibility in tones and effects that the Vetta did. Then I went for the Powered Kemper into my Marshall 4x12 cab with Celestion G12H (55) greenbacks.

Kemper is awesome, been using it for about a year and a half. (vetta/Marshall/Engl now gathering dust). I'm the rhythm player in a band with an awesome shredder lead guitarist with Marshalls and H&K (into a 4x12) and I'm the one people always compliment on guitar tone.

Along with the built in presets, I profiled my high gain settings from the Marshall and Engl and also a Vetta clean tone and pulled some great profiles from the internet (5150, Bogner, etc).

Kemper has excellent tweakability, good effects, great noisegate and instant 'preset' switching (I use an old ART X-11 midi switch pedal).

[MountainDog]

I also recently got a Positive Grid Bias Rack (the non-powered one that I run through an ISP Stealth power amp into my 4x12 or an Engl 2x12) and it has awesome tones and the ability to try out and download presets from the internet. You can tweak it by using all the knobs and switches on the unit or do it all thru an iPad or PC. All the great high gain amps are available. It's drawbacks are that it only has 25 preset slots for storage and no built-in effects, so you have to add a midi switchable effects rack/pedal through the effects loop. It has tons of amp tweakability and a great noisegate and can change presets via midi (same ART X-11 switcher).

[BenoA]

Want to follow that thread so Jumpin' in... Boss Katana amp owner and also has a not too bad collection of tube amps!

[beachjammer]

I use a Blackstar ID:Core 260 2x12 combo amp and it works killer live! I've used a Line 6 AX2, Flextone and Spider Valve and Fender Mustang but the Blackstar killed them all as far as tone and cutting thru the mix.

[lhrocker]

My workhorse for the last year has been a helix into the return of a Spidervalve combo. Or, if it's a larger gig, helix into return of GK MB500 into 4x12 cab. I run the Helix as preamp only since it's going into a power amp section/cab. Sounds enormous.

[chrisolson]

I don't play live, but I used to go see bands at clubs 3-4 nights a week, so perhaps I can add a little here...

Two of the best club bands I ever heard were using Flextone combos and Pods. Of course the players were damn good too. That said, they blended together so well... It sounded like an album mix it was so good.

[markD]

These days I am using a Helix rack into an EV ZLX12P behind. The Helix goes FOH. It has been working out VERY well. Here is a video from a show last month. It's not the greatest, but you can hear how the Helix sounds out front in the band context.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmYD4725xBE