Avid Eleven Rack 11R questions

[jgcable]

I am picking up one tomorrow night. It has the upgrade. For $200 and in mint condition I figure it will be fun to mess around with.
Anyway... I want to pick up a cheap midi foot controller for it. I looked at the FCB1010 with the Uno chip upgrade which is only around $100 used but I really don't need a foot controller with that many pedals and buttons on it. I only need around 6 buttons. It would also be nice to get something that is 9v powered if possible.
Any suggestions? I did hear one of these Eleven Racks live once and it sounded pretty good. I may use it just for home jamming and recording. It depends on how it sounds live.

[markD]

I always liked the Rocktron MIDI Mate. I also still have a MIDI Exchange that gets the job done. It's 9V powered.

http://www.rocktron.com/controllers.html

It's not 6 buttons, but it does do a recall and it scrolls pretty quick.

The Tech21 MIDI Moose is pretty nice too. It's battery powered.

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/effects/midimoose.html

[Hellbat]

From what I know about your likes, I don't see you using one live but for $200 it's a great deal for a recording interface. Maybe I'm wrong. You'll probably like the Bogner Models. I used a Roland FC-300 with mine, but the FCB is the best bang for the buck one out there.

A lot of the Axe-FX guys that want programmable but small pedals are using this one, but it's twice the price of the FCB + UNO. https://www.morningstarfx.com

If you have a clean amp you really love the sound of you can run the 11R 4 cable method and use it for drives and amp models and leave the cab modeling off.

[jgcable]

I ended up buying the Midi moose on ebay. I like the battery operated feature and its pretty small. I am now searching for a suitable power amp. I have a Marshall 9200 that weighs about 100lbs that I am ABSOLUTELY not going to use. Its part of my Marshall JMP1 rig anyway. It stays home. Too heavy.
I would like to go solid state. I don't believe there is any advantage of running a tube power amp with an Eleven Rack live. Maybe a Crown or a QSC. It just needs to be around 400 watts or more at 8 ohms and it needs to be stereo and it needs to be light weight.

It should end up being a nice stereo rig. Eleven Rack, Furman power conditioner with the cool lights that pull out, a BBE 482i (if I need it), a nice light SS stereo power amp all housed in a nice rolling SKB rack with the pull out handle. For speakers I am going to use a 4 x 12 in stereo mode. I don't need that much stereo spread. I am going to put a shelf in the rack too and Velcro my wireless to it.

[chrisolson]

I just got another 11R (4th time). I just can't quit you...

[jgcable]

I just got another 11R (4th time). I just can't quit you...

Hey Chris, what do you suggest I use to power it. I want a rack mount power amp. Nothing too heavy though. On the Avid Eleven Rack Users forum most of them suggest solid state power amps.

[markD]

The Rocktron Velocity 300 has been pretty popular for powering modeling rigs. You can find one used for a pretty nice price sometimes.

[chrisolson]

Hey Chris, what do you suggest I use to power it. I want a rack mount power amp. Nothing too heavy though. On the Avid Eleven Rack Users forum most of them suggest solid state power amps.

Rocktron, ART - the usual suspects. They all sound pretty good. I'm running through powered monitors now, but I have been a long time Alesis RA-100 guy on the SS side. So quiet, so cheap, and plenty loud. I'd probably just go 2x12 as well. No real need for much more.

[Hellbat]

These seem to be the ones a lot of the AxeFX guys who go into cabs are using...

http://usa.matrixamplification.com/rack-amplifers/gt-800-fx.html

[jgcable]

From the research I have been doing it seems the key to getting a modeling rig to sound real live (such as a Kemper or Fractal or Helix or Eleven Rack etc...) is to have either a very powerful SS stereo power amp (around 300 watts @ 8 ohms) or run it through at least a 50w tube stereo power amp or run it through the effects return of a tube amp. I am not interested in FRFR live because I have too many really nice 1 x 12, 2 x 12 and 4 x 12 passive cabs.

Hmm....

[markD]

When I got the Helix I tried running it the loop of my S120 into a pair of Rivera 1x12 cabs w/ EVM12L speakers. The sound was not so good. I was resistant to going FRFR also. I finally broke down and did. The Helix bloomed into an unstoppable sonic force of perfect guitar tone.

As far as sounding "real" live, I found that it wasn't too hard to do with the FRFR. Mine has a 1000 watt Class D amplifier with some DSP processing/EQ. I kept my actual patches pretty raw, and combined with the FRFR (and NO processing other than "location") my sound is completely ferocious live. It is VERY equal to the brute pummeling my Rivera rig provided.

[jgcable]

When I got the Helix I tried running it the loop of my S120 into a pair of Rivera 1x12 cabs w/ EVM12L speakers. The sound was not so good. I was resistant to going FRFR also. I finally broke down and did. The Helix bloomed into an unstoppable sonic force of perfect guitar tone.

As far as sounding "real" live, I found that it wasn't too hard to do with the FRFR. Mine has a 1000 watt Class D amplifier with some DSP processing/EQ. I kept my actual patches pretty raw, and combined with the FRFR (and NO processing other than "location") my sound is completely ferocious live. It is VERY equal to the brute pummeling my Rivera rig provided.

Wow... that's saying a lot.

I am going to look into FRFR. I assume I need to buy 2 of whatever I settle on right? Is FRFR just another way to say...powered main PA speaker? I assume I would be looking for 12" speaker and a horn in each powered?

There is a local guitar hero running around with a Fractal powered by the effects return of a Peavey 5150 into a Marshall 4 x 12 cab. He runs mono. He says he uses the Peavey because just in case something happened to either the Fractal or the Peavey he would use one or the other as a backup.

His tone is absolutely perfect but he is the only guitar player in his band. When he plays in a 2 guitar band (the other player uses a 5150 half stack) he has great tone but he is kind of hard to hear. The other player is a monster too and he is very easy to hear.

[markD]

There are FANCY, high-dollar FRFR cabs - but I just use a PA wedge. I went that route because I am also running DI to the FOH and I wanted my patches to be accurate. It has worked...VERY well. I got the EV ZLX12P ($349 at GC). Having just read Premier Guitar's review of the Eleven Rack, it seems it is similar unit to the Helix...meaning you can create your entire signal path inside the unit (amp, cab, effects, mic placement). With this ability, you could (obviously) just plug your guitar into 11R, then into your FRFR via a 1/4" amp out jack. You could then take an XLR out to the FOH for added support.

Personally, I think the reason my rig feels as crushing as my Riveras IS the EV ZLX12P. It was not the flattest cab I tried - in that regard it was a toss up between the QSC cabs and the Yamaha DXR. Even the Alto TS212 was "smoother". I was looking for something aggressive because I knew I'd be using one basic sound live. For recording I patch my Helix into my recording console and monitor via my JBL studio monitors.

I play in a one guitar band and I easily drown out my bandmates. I have good, clear stage volume and with my Helix in the mains to fill everything out. I keep the EV wedge behind me. The venues I play always have 4-6 monitors across the front of the stage, so I am basically surrounded by sound (in a good way). My stage volume reduced enough that it cleaned up the sound out front. We are ALWAYS getting compliments on how you can hear everyone. Our singer even sings better because he can hear the monitors better.

[PaleRider]

I run my Eleven Rack with a Hafler TA 1100. It is 100 watts in stereo and does a great job.

Another suggestion would be a Tubeworks Mosvalve 962. I've always wanted to try one of these myself. They are awesome power amps.

[chrisolson]

If you have cabs you love, just go with your favorite one, and use a higher powered SS power amp. Shut off the cab sims. You should be pretty happy.

As far as FRFR, people "follow". If so-and-so uses XX brand FRFR cab, it must be best, right? The biggest mistake I made was following the hype of the "brand of the day". Just buy some powered monitor/speaker cabs, and go from there. Everything has a "voice", so "flat" isn't real - it's just how someone hears every nuance, and I wasn't very fond of one of the big names -- I was much happier with my budget brand monitors.