Fairly Urgent PA question! Help...

[jgcable]

Our sound guy has a problem so we have to supply our own PA and set it up for the show this Saturday. I have to hook it all up.

I don't know how to hook up the powered subwoofers that the club has! I need help and QUICK!!

Here is what we have....

Mackie 808M powered mixer.
QSC 1500 watt power amp for the monitors
2 passive main speakers with tripods
3 passive monitors
Various mics, mic cables and several standard 1/4" speaker cables.

The club has

2 Harbinger 18" powered subwoofers with internal crossovers.

The Mackie 808M is a powered mono mixer and it doesn't have a sub out.

I need the subs for the kick drum and the bass guitar only.

We run the Mackie bridged powering the mains only. We run a separate QSC power amp to power the monitors.

[markD]

I ma still hunting down the possibilities for you, but from what I am seeing with that mixer it looks like it can't be done. You have power 1+2 inputs, a monitor output, and a mixer line out. The ONLY thing I can see at this point would be if you had another small, passive mixer you could try to make this work:

Your passive mains -> power amp 1+2 in
808M monitor out -> QSC -> 3 passive wedges
808M mixer line out -> small passive mixer -> (2) Harbinger 18" powered subs

You would use the small passive mixer as an extra pair of "outputs" for the subs. This is ASSUMING that the "mixer line out" is a passive signal. At that point, you would feed the line out to one input channel (kept flat and with just enough trim and volume to pass signal) to feed the outs to the subs. The mixer volume would obviously feed the sub level. You would use it to blend in the subs as needed - that way you won't have to mess with the venues settings on their subs.


Again, this may not BE the BEST way, but based on the little information I could find on the 808M (mostly pictures) it seems to be a way you can get it done. At least it is an option to consider.

[Rsmacker]

Hire a board with an Aux out!

[paranoid]

I have a 808m and I would say you have doable 2 options for the subs. 1 use monitor out and control the volume of the subs on the subs, or insert a mixer inline. 2 some adapter cables from rca to xlr and use the tape send. there is a possible 3rd option but it is sketchy, you could pick up the signal for the kick from the effects send with one side of an insert cable.

[jgcable]

Hire a board with an Aux out!

That's not an option at this point. The weird thing is the Harbinger powered subs the club has have a crossover in them. When I downloaded the manual for them it shows a set up where the outs from the Mackie go to the ins of the subwoofers and the XLR outs from the subwoofers are plugged into the main speakers.

It appears by reading the manual.. that if we used the mixer in passive mode the Harbinger powered subwoofers would act as power amps and power the mains.
Does that sound realistic? If so... the cables required are XLR female to 1/4" TRS. The thing I don't understand is why they are TRS. The main speakers are just 1/4" mono. There is no reason for TRS. The Harbinger subwoofer part numbers are V2218S

Any help is greatly appreciated!

[phragle]

Ok, I googled the manuals for the mixer and the speakers, both came right up.

Run a line from mixer out, Y'd to the powered subs. This will not interfere with the internal link from mixer to amp section in the Mackie. THe subs have built in crossovers, so your set there. THe powered subs also have a level knob, you will have to adjust there mix at the speaker. But once that is set during sound check their volume should be congruent with the mixer overall volume. You may have to have somebody go behind the subs to fine tune the level once you start but it should get you through.

[jgcable]

I have a 808m and I would say you have doable 2 options for the subs. 1 use monitor out and control the volume of the subs on the subs, or insert a mixer inline. 2 some adapter cables from rca to xlr and use the tape send. there is a possible 3rd option but it is sketchy, you could pick up the signal for the kick from the effects send with one side of an insert cable.

Option 1 won't work. We absolutely need the monitor out. Option 2 is interesting and I was thinking about that but... how would I control the level of the bass guitar and the kick drum. The record out only has a single level control and the entire mix from the band will be sent to the subs. I only want the bass guitar and the kick drum.
Houston... I think we have a problem.

[jgcable]

Ok, I googled the manuals for the mixer and the speakers, both came right up.

Run a line from mixer out, Y'd to the powered subs. This will not interfere with the internal link from mixer to amp section in the Mackie. THe subs have built in crossovers, so your set there. THe powered subs also have a level knob, you will have to adjust there mix at the speaker. But once that is set during sound check their volume should be congruent with the mixer overall volume. You may have to have somebody go behind the subs to fine tune the level once you start but it should get you through.

The 808m has a left and a right mixer out. Why would I need to use a Y cable? Wouldn't I just run speaker cablse from left to the left sub and the right to the right sub?
Or... do I have to use the left or the right? Thanks.. a lot! John

[phragle]

the line level mix out, I thought you were using the regular outs for the mains? from the pic I saw there is 1 quarter inch line level mixer out

[phragle]

With alittle experimenting and some Y's etc, you may also be able to run off the effects loop too, out to a y...

[xenophobe]

It seems to me the easiest option would be to use a small mixer to run the bass and kick through to the subs if it's too much trouble creating a chain with the primary board. It would require it's own adjustment at sound check and would likely take more time if you need to setup other bands as well. Too bad your drummer doesn't have his own board.

I'm curious why you would want only the kick and bass to be on the subs... won't you have more trouble getting a decent mix with that much separation? The sub has a crossover, so it would make more sense to me having all instruments except vocals mixed to the mains and the subs.

Sorry, don't have much help for you. But I've had to set up boards with unlabeled and disconnected cables at clubs without full time soundguys or the rare time that they call in sick or something. It's always been much easier figuring out workarounds when you have all the gear in front of you. Trial and error and all that.

[jgcable]

the line level mix out, I thought you were using the regular outs for the mains? from the pic I saw there is 1 quarter inch line level mixer out

Yea, you are correct. There is only 1 line level 1/4 inch out. So... here is another question... The Harbinger powered subs have a daisy chain feature. You just take a standard speaker cable and plug one into the other one. With that said.. could I just run one cable from the mixer out to one sub and then daisy chain that sub to the other one? If so... I think I can get everything working no sweat. If not.. I need to get to the store and get a Y 1/4" adapter.
Thanks

[phragle]

I dont know how all the speakers are wired so watch your ohms....

[jgcable]

I am more confused then ever now. I downloaded the subwoofer manual. The subwoofers are Harbinger V2218S. They are powered and they have crossovers. The manual online shows 2 hook up diagrams. One of the diagrams shows the following...
Mixer main outputs to the subwoofer speaker inputs. Subwoofer speaker outputs go to the left and the right main speakers. They say set the crossover switch to crossover. They call this a typical mono sub system using the internal crossover.

The next diagram shows the mixer main outs going to the main speaker inputs. The main speaker outputs are plugged into the sub. They say if we use both subs than one speaker will be plugged into one sub and the other speaker into the other sub. They say set the switch to LINK so that we can connect both subwoofers together. They call this set up Full Range speakers with sub.

What the heck? The reason I am panicking is I need to have all the cables necessary. Every different set up requires all kinds of crazy cables. XLR female to TRS, XLR female to TS. TRS to TRS etc... and everything has to be long so this could get quite expensive!!

[jgcable]

I dont know how all the speakers are wired so watch your ohms....

Do I use speaker cables out from the Y coming out of the mixer out to the subwoofers or are they line level instrument cables?