Fractal or EVH

[catzodellamarina]

I'm getting GAS again.
My current live rig = EVH 5150 III, TCE G-Major2, Joyo Classic OD, Whirlwind Phaser, Marshall 1960a. It sounds HUGE live but it's mono and I struggle with the TCE (reliability) and dialing in FX. No good network of TCE patch sharing and never has been.

I'm thinking about = Fractal AX8, my spare MOSValve 962, my Marshall cab in stereo mode. I like the stereo sounds and I think it would be good to "widen" my stage sound. Also the patch sharing with Fractal users is a plus. I worry about how thin the MOSValve sounds and lack of pure power you can feel. I don't want something that sounds great at home, then live I sound like I'm playing through computer speakers.

What to do. Sigh..

[MOSHWITZ]

I maybe a little biased...lol


But,I'd say go for the fractal. It is gonna be way more versatile than you might think and you will be able to lighten your load of pedals too. there are alot of great users out there in the community, and Fractal has awesome support and dedication to the customer and product, not to mention free firmware updates.

I have been an Axe-fx user since I had my Ultra. I moved up to an Axe-fxII ( which I still have) and now I have an Axe-fx III. and have had no problem getting awesome tones live and recording.

If you want to know anything or whatever hit me up.

MOSHON
DAVE

[jgcable]

I love how the AxFx sounds. I love how the Kemper sounds. I love how the Helix sounds. I just don't think any of them will sound as good as your current rig live. Nobody hears stereo live pretty much.

[z1n]

I love how the AxFx sounds. I love how the Kemper sounds. I love how the Helix sounds. I just don't think any of them will sound as good as your current rig live. Nobody hears stereo live pretty much.

Agree with this 100%. I went down that same path but went back to my 5150 setup. It just has more. You could run to the sound board in stereo but your still not gonna feel it like your current setup. JM2C

[paranoid]

You do not have to run stereo with the Axe FX. I run Fractal and would not go back to lugging amps, cabs, pedal board. also no more worry about sound man mic up. Also better for the crowed with out unmixed stage noise beaming off the stage. now if only we could get the drum sound off the stage.

[markD]

....no more worry about sound man mic up. Also better for the crowed with out unmixed stage noise beaming off the stage. now if only we could get the drum sound off the stage.

This is where we are. Our stage sound has cleaned up SOOOOOO much. The vocalist (who was really killer to begin with, is BETTER now) can be heard out front. The people at our shows are up front instead of hanging in the back of the room. The overall mix in the room is WAY cleaner. Even my bass player - who runs a Mark Bass rig - is running direct these days, and went from using an 8x10 to a 1x15. This volume is just enough to fill out the sound (the MB head has separate volume for the DI to give the FOH more signal if needed).


Funny enough, the ONLY mics we have on stage these days are from the drums and the 3 vocals.

I run a Helix Rack, direct, mono to the FOH. All I carry to a gig is my rack, an over-the-shoulder bag that holds my controller, wireless packs, and other gig necessities, and my EV-ZLX12P cab. Takes about 3 minutes to set-up since everything is prewired in the rack.

I'll NEVER do a traditional rig ever again. Every time we do a show with a band that feels the need to lug a 4x12 stack or larger, my point is proven - their sound is a muddy, swirling mess coming off the stage. You can never hear the vocals, and if there is more than one guitar player - forget telling who's doing what. It sucks.

[jgcable]

My band had a gig Saturday. The club was mobbed. We hire a sound company. 2 subs on each side, 2 mains, 3 monitors out in front and one in the back for the drummer. Guitars are mic'd, bass runs direct, drums are mic'd, 4 vocal mics. Bass player brought a 2 x 15 cab, rhythm guitar player used a JSX 1/2 stack and I used a Mesa Single Rectifier 1/2 stack. The first thing the sound guy said to me is ... why do you guys insist on bringing 1/2 stack amps? I am only mic'ing one speaker and you are going to be hearing the majority of your sound through your monitor. I told him the guys in the band like the way 1/2 stack amps look better.
The sound was fantastic that night. I had the perfect blend of my guitar sound with a little coming from my 4 x 12 Marshall cab and the majority coming from my monitor. The crowd loved the sound. Compliments all night.
I told the guys this is the LAST time they will be seeing a 1/2 stack from me. I have a killer Carvin V3M head and the Carvin 212V vertical slant cab. Both of them fit in the backseat of my Toyota Prius C WITH their soft cases. I have a Weber Beam Blocker on the top speaker. Beam Blockers are AWESOME!!
Anyway... I have played with guitar players with Fractals and Kempers and the Helix. In a one guitar band with a good PA they sound great. In a 2 guitar band when the other guitar player is using a GOOD tube amp like a 5150-III or a Rectifier or a good Marshall.. the modeling software amp sound is pretty hard to hear. It just doesn't have that presence. You can't feel it. Other than that.. the tone is awesome.

[jgcable]

All I am saying is the original posters live rig.... EVH 5150 III, TCE G-Major2, Joyo Classic OD, Whirlwind Phaser, Marshall 1960a..... is an outstanding rig.
Thinking that just going to a modeling stereo rig is going to help with the stereo FX is not realistic. Sure.. when the band isn't playing and its just you.. stereo works. When the band is playing its hard to hear the difference.
I ran stereo live many times. Its just not worth the hassle.

[catzodellamarina]

When we play live, and get to turn it up through the 4x12, it feels GREAT! Sound that you can actually feel is so inspiring. My drummer comments about it too. Practice room is so sterile compared to cutting loose live. I don't really play that loud either. I have never pushed the amp to noon. Ten o'clock is max. The amp sounds terrible through my Sheffield stuffed ADA 2x12's. My Zinky Blue Velvet combo sounds great through the ADA's.

I fell for the modeling thing in 2000 when I ordered a POD PRO. It was supposed to replace my live tube rack rig (Peavey 50/50, Rockmaster, Zoom 9150) Big fail. I do not want to be disappointed by modeling as a live rig replacement again. I think I will keep things the way they are and fix the G-Major2's hiccups.

[pianoguyy]

While I agree with those saying not to "go stereo", I am a fan of the modelers when one's situation calls for modelers.
Many people play on stages so small that an amp bypasses the need for a pa. Some people play on stages so big that they can't even hear a stage amp. Hell, many of those don't even use amps on stage because they keep them backstage where the tech can manage them. And some play those medium stages where a pa is needed, but a stage amp will simply interfere with it.

Some play in bands that have "one sound", while others need every sound known to man.

Modeling may not be ideal for everyone, but when you consider floor monitors and ear monitors... what is the difference between using a stage amp and a modeler?

[jgcable]

While I agree with those saying not to "go stereo", I am a fan of the modelers when one's situation calls for modelers.
Many people play on stages so small that an amp bypasses the need for a pa. Some people play on stages so big that they can't even hear a stage amp. Hell, many of those don't even use amps on stage because they keep them backstage where the tech can manage them. And some play those medium stages where a pa is needed, but a stage amp will simply interfere with it.

Some play in bands that have "one sound", while others need every sound known to man.

Modeling may not be ideal for everyone, but when you consider floor monitors and ear monitors... what is the difference between using a stage amp and a modeler?

Well... if you are a pro...and you have a guitar tech running your stuff and a killer sound company that knows what you want to hear onstage than absolutely leave your amps home and use Fractal or Kemper or Helix. I agree 100% on that.

For the 99.99% of everybody else on this forum.... sometimes the monitors suck. They are either too low or they just sound like canned ass.
I have been playing live for 41 years and from my experience on small stages and large stages... the smaller the venue.. the more likely you will need a good stage amp that you can actually hear. You would think its would be the opposite of that but its not. Also.. and this is VERY important... if you are in a 2 guitar band and you are using modeling and the other guitar player is using a traditional high gain tube amp.. you will have a tough time hearing yourself UNLESS... you have a killer monitor system that is dialed in perfectly.
Unless you are bringing your own monitors to every show OR.. you use the same sound company at every show... its impossible to know if your guitar sound is going to be proper coming out of the front stage monitors.
And another thing..... many of the players on this forum are in worship groups and they play in churches. Playing in a worship group is 100% different than playing in a club. Many of the players on this forum are in 1 guitar bands. Using modeling is a completely different experience when you are in a 1 guitar band as opposed to a 2 guitar band.
With that said... I love Kemper, Helix and Fractal. I am a HUGE fan of modeling amps. I can count how many players in my area use them live. There are 3. One uses a Fractal, one uses a Helix and one uses a Kemper. The Kemper player is in a solo guitarist project. It sounds outstanding. He uses the same sound company and there is no other guitar player to compete with. The other 2 have very thin sound in my opinion. The guy with the Helix is competing with a guitar player with a 50w EVH head and 4 x 12 cab. The guy with the Fractal uses too many effects and his guitar tone even though its really good and sounds just like the songs he is playing... it just doesn't have the presence and cut of a traditional amp. He used to use a 5150-II head and 4 x 12 cab with a G-Major in the loop and I thought his tone was much better than it is now.

[jgcable]

It may just be me though. For instance.... I am not a fan of in ear monitors. I have tried them.. low end ones.. super high end ones. I feel disconnected from the sound when I am using them. I would rather have a good wedge monitor system out in front. Since I play live so much.. I actually prefer hearing my guitar sound hitting me from the front and sides rather than the back. I don't even care if I can hear my amp. Still.. .I have to bring traditional tube amps instead of modeling because I can't rely on the sound company or house PA sometimes!

[jgcable]

To get this thread back on track though.... from my experience.. .I don't see the concern for running stereo live. Nothing beats a nice midrangy high gain guitar sound live. Maybe a splash of delay or reverb and add effects when you need them using stomp boxes.

[hippietim]

In a 2 guitar band when the other guitar player is using a GOOD tube amp like a 5150-III or a Rectifier or a good Marshall.. the modeling software amp sound is pretty hard to hear. It just doesn't have that presence. You can't feel it. Other than that.. the tone is awesome.

I did a gig last month in New York. I brought my Fractal AX8 and an Atomic CLR monitor. I played with a couple different lineups. One lineup was me and another guitar player with a Soldano Decatone and Marshall 4x12. Another lineup had the Soldano guy and another guy with a Mesa Boogie Rectifier rack rig with a Boogie 4x12. Believe me, my guitar cut through no problem. We were playing 80s metal and classic rock.

Here's the reasons for modelers not cutting through when you're playing along side some tube amps:

1. Too many damn effects. Sure, you've got endless possibilities. Don't do it.
2. Don't dial tones in at gig volumes. If you dial in tones at bedroom levels, there's a 99.99% chance your tone will not cut through. You'll dial in too much gain, too much treble, and too much bass. Too much gain means your signal is way compressed. Too much treble loses to the cymbals. Too much bass loses to the kick drum and the bass player. Unless you do all this and just turn up really fucking loud. Then you make a mushy mess of everything.
3. Don't have proper stage sound. Those dudes with their hundred watters and 4x12 cabs are making all kinds of racket on stage so folks up close or in the directional beam of the guitar cabs are hearing a lot of stage sound. So you better have some stage sound. Besides, if you don't have stage sound you won't get cool feedback - modelers need volume and that physical interaction too. There are a lot of really good choices - do not skimp on this! I see so many folks drop serious coin on a modeling rig and then post some stupid shit like "what's the best cheap monitor I can get?" Seriously. People drop $1200-3000 on a modeling rig and then want to play it through a $150 piece of shit powered speaker from GC. You'd be much better off buying a great monitor and less powerful modeler - it will sound better.

[hippietim]

It may just be me though. For instance.... I am not a fan of in ear monitors. I have tried them.. low end ones.. super high end ones. I feel disconnected from the sound when I am using them. I would rather have a good wedge monitor system out in front. Since I play live so much.. I actually prefer hearing my guitar sound hitting me from the front and sides rather than the back. I don't even care if I can hear my amp. Still.. .I have to bring traditional tube amps instead of modeling because I can't rely on the sound company or house PA sometimes!

We played a gig in a dinky place this past weekend so I brought my IEM. We weren't able to load in on time and setup was a nightmare so I never got to dial in a mix with this particular board. Fortunately, I brought a small powered monitor and wired it up just in case so I yanked my IEM after the first tune and played the rest of the night with a Turbosound ip300 as my stage sound.