rack setup, volume control question.

[the_drip]

As I dream up my dream rack, I can't help but think and wonder what is the best way to get that seering, thick, crunchy....umm perfect metal tone out of your preamp and poweramp? Which volume controls do you use? Do you crank the power amp and use the preamp volume as a master? or vice versa? I'm talking Death/Power Metal tones here.

Biased Opinions are quite welcome.

so far I am lusting for an ENGL 530 preamp, a VHT 2:90:2 power amp. ...that's it so far. maybe a graphic eq of some sort...but I haven't looked into thigns that far yet. How would I set this up for rip off your face Alexi type solo tones. And some crushing rhythmn stuff....iced earth, arch enemy, DARKANE (ooh the best tone)

thanks guys

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

Not looking for much are ya?

Good choice of rig... Although I think that from what I've heard, the Engle is just a touch sedate for your needs. BUT, with creative tweaking you may get there.

I'd recommend a good parametric to accenuate the particular freqs that you'll need. I've had lotsa Graphics with little luck other than boosting bass and treble etc. The parametrics are the true tone shapers.

Get THAT rig, and you'll fall into some good tone.

But, you'l not really be getting that Swedish 5150 sound (arch enemy), or that Alexi sound too closely. IMO, you'll get something better...

Shoot for YOUR sound man and build something on THAT. THat rig or something of that type will give you YOUR sound I assure you.

You could spend years chasing some other faygs tone and never get it. Or get when you don't want it any more.

I know how you might want tones these other guys have. I do too. But, it's hard to get them as they often manipulate it so much in the studio you may never grasp it. I've wanted someone tone from an album, seen them live and found MY sound was better than theirs in person!!!

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

I gotta agree with Cleve...get a parametric eq. I shaped my tone more in an afternoon by messing around with a parametric than I did by fine tuning a graphic eq for years.

[the_drip]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

yeah, I'm looking for my own sound and all. But I just need something to describe what I'm sort of searchign for, just so people have something to reference what I'm getting at.


What about the volume controls on this stuff though?

[Newc]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

Ideally you want the power amp set so it's driving the cabinet a bit, but not going into distortion. That's what the preamp is for. Start with a straight clean setting (no effects) and use the neck pickup (bridge pickups of a Distortion class like the 81, X2N, etc will create false distortion) and crank the power amp till it starts to crackle, then back it down a few notches.
Now flip to the bridge pickup and set your preamp to stage volume, and adjust your EQ (if you have it). You don't want the preamp overloading the poweramp's inputs, so you set the poweramp first, then the preamp.

As for gain settings, remember that a totally saturated (i.e. Gain 1 and 2 on 10 and running at the same time) will result in white noise once the rest of the band kicks in. Yeah it's nice and pretty in the bedroom, but it doesn't work on stage or in the studio. Layering works in the studio.
So, set your Rhythm Gain to about 7 or 8 (depending on how quickly your particular preamp goes into total saturation) and go down from there till you've got the punch you want and still enough saturation for smooth sustaining leads.

Newc

[ April 29, 2003, 01:24 AM: Message edited by: Newc ]

[Mordor]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

Do you think that a rocktron piranha needs a parametric eq too?

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

I think YOU need to make that decision really.

My Voodu didn't quite need a parametric. But, now that I have one, I'll be trying it when the Voodu goes back in the rack.

Basically, if you are happy with your sound, then it doesn't really need it. If you aren't, then it's probably a good thing to try as it will give you a tremendous amount of control to attenuate and accenuate frequencies areas.

Parametrics are awesome tone shaping devices for guitar. They can bring out things you might not have realized you had in your amp. But, have a LOT of patience, you may be dialing forever... They can do a quite a bit and can be deep.

[chrisolson]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

Originally posted by Mordor:
Do you think that a rocktron piranha needs a parametric eq too?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Not necessarily. That preamp has all kinds of EQing options on board already - especially with the sweepable Mid Freq. You may not need to do anything with it. Maybe try a Sonic Maximizer to start with. But if YOU are happy with your tone, that's waht really matters.

[the_drip]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

ok, follow up question. You guys recommend getting a parametric eq. I am not familiar at all about what brand I should look into. And what, if at all, is the difference between a graphic eq and a parametric. Or can an EQ be both? I don't want a piece of crap eq messing up the sound. So I want to know what a good one to buy is. thanks again.

[rodrigo_echeverri]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

EQ:

People can say anything but a parametric and a graphic equalizer affect the signal in the same way (as long as they have the same frequency range)... thd difference is in the way you can manipulate the transfer function of your signal... people tend to feel that the parametric equalizer is more flexible... in theory that is true but marginally... I personally prefer one of those things with lotsa actual sliders in them!.... I love knobs!...

I am going to get fire for this answer.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ April 29, 2003, 09:16 PM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

[rodrigo_echeverri]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

John:

Hey, I got "your sound" dialed in my Voodu.. it is cool and I find myself using it often for Megadeth style riffs... Stuart has me doing a lot of experimentation with it as well...

I keep telling everybody I want more "compression" and nobody agrees with me... [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I think the Voodu might benefit from an extra EQ IN FRONT... I want ridiculous amounts of mids getting distorted in the tube!... I run out of them in the parametric EQ in the Voodu, it is at 15 already!... [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[ April 29, 2003, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

[the_drip]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

Thanks guys. Very helpful stuff.

[Newc]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

Cut your bass and highs - that'll make the mids more prevalent.
Be aware that too much mids means you drown out the vocals and cymbals, and end up sounding like angry bees in a cardboard box - basically a Peavey [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

Even if your preamp has EQ, external units almost always yield a different sound, even if you set the preamp EQ flat and set the external EQ to what your preamp's EQ WAS set at (same boost/cut at same freqs), you will get a different sound.

Graphic EQs are better for final mixes than individual components, but can be handy for isolating a single freq where feedback occurs, however, you should get excellent results with a parametric EQ, even if all you add is a slight boost to the lows and highs.

Newc

[jackson1]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

Now i HAVE to get involved in this thread [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Newc and rodrigo are saying things i can not support.

Newc, you say that graphic EQs can be handy for a single frequency where feedback occurs. NOT correct in my book. The graphic EQs are not meant for this type of job. For this, you will use parametric EQs for sure. Some parametric EQs are even called Feedback Suppressors. Why? With a parametric EQ you can pinpoint exactly what frequency to manipulate by setting:

ONE BAND
1. Center (frequency in Hz)
2. Bandwidth (Q in octaves)
3. Level (dB)

The adjustable Q is the key to the parametric EQs advantages over the graphic EQ. With the Q you can adjust how wide the processed frequency spectrum will be. And it can be set fOkkin' narrow. You can't do that on a graphic EQ. Big difference. The Q is not freely adjustable on a graphic EQ. Most good parametrics will come with several BANDS so you can pinpoint several frequencies.

That's why a parametric is such a strong tool - and hard to control for those who don't know what Q is.

[i sure hope it's called Q in english [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] ]

[Wayniac]

Re: rack setup, volume control question.

If you go with the ENGL, you may need the EQ. The ENGL's have a GREAT amount of distortion, with a singing lead tone, and the cleans are pretty "glassy" sounding as well.
But if you want REAL beefy bottom tones, you may want an EQ.
I ended up getting away from my ENGL rack stuff because I got a GREAT deal on an ENGL Straight 50 (Killer tone) and a ENGL Savage 120. I run my soloist 7 string from the amp through 2 Genz Benz G Flex ported cabs, with all monster cable. You'd be surprised how much of a difference Monster cable makes.
Sounds like you have a great rig in mind. Good luck.