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5150 and SLO schematics compared...

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  • 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

    Peavey should get a swift kick in the nuts.

    I looked at the schematics for both amps, and yeah, there are differences. But there are a LOT more things in common with em. First, a little tube-theory:

    preamp tubes have three things we're concerned with - plates, grids, and cathodes. Cathodes and plates work together to set the gain and frequency response. (yeah, I'm simplifying. If you want to go into depth, take a class.) [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Grids are inputs. In a high gain preamp, usually the signal goes into a grid, then out the plate (which is also hooked up to the B+ voltage for the tube) then a coupling capacitor that blocks the voltage, and just lets the sound through. After the coupling cap, it goes into another tube stage, made up of a grid, cathode, and plate. One tube has two gain stages.

    Anyways, the peavey and the soldano have the *same* values for each stage in the lead channel. Each plate resistor is the same. Each cathode resistor is the same, but the cathode capacitors are of different values. This changes the tone slightly.

    Another difference: The Soldano has the fx loop before the eq: 5150 after. Also, the Peavey seems to have a lot more solid state junk for switching in there than the Soldano, unless the soldano schematic just doesn't show it to the same degree.

    Tone stacks are both Marshall ripoffs, and are identical to each other. (tone stack is the set of caps, resistors and potentiometers that give you bass, mid, treble controls.)

    My guess? Peavey got it as close as they could without Soldano suing them... and while we all can appreciate Soldano's amps, his company isn't much $$$$ wise compared to Peavey. If he did take em to court, Peavey's attorneys would likely end up owning Soldano somehow.

    Speaking of attorneys, the above is my OPINION of the information widely available on the internet, and certainly isn't factual. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

    both schematics are available at schematicheaven.com if you want to check for yourself. The SLO is harder to trace, however.

    Pete

  • #2
    Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

    Well, I can't say I'm surprised. EVH was playing Soldanos before he moved to Peaveys and when they started putting together a signature amp, they probably started with the Soldano and went from there. Then again, that's nothing new. The way I understand it is that most amps are descended from the same two or three basic designs. Amp designs being ripped off and modified are nothing new.

    Besides, the "copyright" of circuits, as it were, have always been questionable. How many companies have produced exact replicas of Fuzz Faces or (*COUGH*) Tubescreamers? [img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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    • #3
      Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

      I never did have much respect for peavey lol. The soldano kicks the crap out of the 5150 still but its pathetic to copy some elses amps then make it into your own.

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      • #4
        Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

        Very interesting to read about indeed, Dr. Pete!! Thanks for making this amp-idiot understand a little more stuff! [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

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        • #5
          Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

          Originally posted by ColdVayne:
          I never did have much respect for peavey lol. The soldano kicks the crap out of the 5150 still but its pathetic to copy some elses amps then make it into your own.
          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, it's not. It's how most amp manufacturers have worked for the past 50 years. You think the Bassman was an original concept? The Twin? The millions of boutique amps (*NUDGE NUDGE WINK WINK*)? Amps have been ripped off for years, it's not like Peavey's doing any different. Besides, if ripping stuff off and modifying it was illegal or unethical then Charvel would have had their ass kicked early on. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

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          • #6
            Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

            Hats off to Peavey for making essentially the same amp and selling it for 1/3 of the price! If peavey tripled their prices on the 5150 and XXX amp lines, they would finally get the respect that they have always deserved. Too many people judge them on their price. If it is so inexpensive, how can it be any good? Listen with your ears, not with your wallet. Peavey makes an outstanding product and delivers it to you at a fantastic price. Can you say that about Soldano? Its not a big secret that Peavey essentially copied the SLO for the 5150 series, just like the XXX is loosely based on the triple rectumfrier. Don't call it a ripoff, call it a 'homage', if it makes you feel better. If you haven't figured it out, I play Peavey (5150 combo among others). I can afford any amp that I want, but I appreciate value and versatility as well. However, I will not compromise my tone for anything, including price. If you want a great tone and you can't afford a Soldano, give the Peavey a try, you won't be disappointed.

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            • #7
              Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

              Originally posted by Metalcop:
              Hats off to Peavey for making essentially the same amp and selling it for 1/3 of the price! If peavey tripled their prices on the 5150 and XXX amp lines, they would finally get the respect that they have always deserved. Too many people judge them on their price. If it is so inexpensive, how can it be any good? Listen with your ears, not with your wallet. Peavey makes an outstanding product and delivers it to you at a fantastic price. Can you say that about Soldano? Its not a big secret that Peavey essentially copied the SLO for the 5150 series, just like the XXX is loosely based on the triple rectumfrier. Don't call it a ripoff, call it a 'homage', if it makes you feel better. If you haven't figured it out, I play Peavey (5150 combo among others). I can afford any amp that I want, but I appreciate value and versatility as well. However, I will not compromise my tone for anything, including price. If you want a great tone and you can't afford a Soldano, give the Peavey a try, you won't be disappointed.
              <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Here's the big picture tho:

              Peavey's R&D on that amp was basically taking Eddies and copying it. Ok, that's great for us, right?

              Well, what's going to happen later on when someone comes up with another great original design, spends the skull-sweat making it come true, and a larger company like Peavey rips it off? I can almost sympathize with amp builders who cover their boards with epoxy to hide the circuits.

              The only good thing for Soldano is that the 5150 is an inferior version of an SLO, and can't compare head to head. I owned a 5150, it was a good amp, but it wasn't an SLO.

              I have some really interesting ideas for a guitar amp, but if I built one and people at Peavey copied it and sold a bazillion of em, wouldn't I have the right to be pissed?

              Regarding Peavey 5150 vs an SLO cost-wise - that's like comparing a hand built aston martin vs a ford pinto. One has the best parts, the other one has the cheapest that fall into spec. The transformers alone on an SLO are likely more expensive than all the parts for the 5150 cost Peavey.

              Again, not downing the 5150 on it's own merits... but it is NOT worth three times the money. No way, no how.

              When it comes down to it, an SLO is like a sexy supermodel, and IN COMPARISON TO THE SLO, the 5150 is a Jerry Springer transvestite. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

              Pete

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              • #8
                Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                That was an awesome read, Pete. Thanks!
                I think I need to hug my supermodel now.

                The circut similarities may be there, but you cannot put the 5150 in the same league as the SLO. Not the same sport. Not the same bloody stadium!
                Its like everyone who is selling a Soldano HR series amp always says it's the same as an SLO, just cheaper. Um...nope! I've had every HR series haed there is and while they were all cool as all get out, NONE of them can sound like the SLO. The HR100+ was pretty close, however...

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                • #9
                  Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                  Soooooo can you mod a 5150 into an SLO? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                  Newc
                  I want to depart this world the same way I arrived; screaming and covered in someone else's blood

                  The most human thing we can do is comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable.

                  My Blog: http://newcenstein.com

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                  • #10
                    Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                    Originally posted by Newc:
                    Soooooo can you mod a 5150 into an SLO? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                    Newc
                    <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah, by swapping chassis with an SLO. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

                    Hey, I had a 5150 for a little over a year, and it was a great high gain head. I have had some stuff since that in my opinion is better. But when you really look at one vs an SLO, there isn't much comparison quality wise, parts and construction. A 5150 is still a great deal (especially used) but it just chafes me how they came up with such a great deal, you know?

                    Pete

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                    • #11
                      Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                      were you comparing it with the original 5150 or the 5150ii (2)? what is the difference between the 2? 5150 vs 5150(2) vs SLO?
                      ~JW
                      Widow - "We have songs"

                      http://jameslugo.com/johnewooteniv.shtml

                      http://ultimateguitarsound.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                        When you own the market you set the price.. When the competitor does it (And every in industry they ripoff from the original) in order to gain marketshare they have to do it cheaper or you'll just keep buying from the original. Because the big boys set the pace they set the price to earn back their R&D costs. So if PV comes along and reverse engineers something where does the cost really need to be recouped? It still does but at a much lower level .. This is true in most industries and extremely true in and semi conductor driven industry as its highly competetive. So it shouldn't be a shock that pv can not only do it the same or close... but cheaper ..
                        Don't worry - I'll smack her if it comes to that. You do not sell guitars to buy shoes. You skimp on food to buy shoes! ~Mrs Tekky 06-03-08~

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                        • #13
                          Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                          Originally posted by KMaynard:
                          When you own the market you set the price.. When the competitor does it (And every in industry they ripoff from the original) in order to gain marketshare they have to do it cheaper or you'll just keep buying from the original. Because the big boys set the pace they set the price to earn back their R&D costs. So if PV comes along and reverse engineers something where does the cost really need to be recouped? It still does but at a much lower level .. This is true in most industries and extremely true in and semi conductor driven industry as its highly competetive. So it shouldn't be a shock that pv can not only do it the same or close... but cheaper ..
                          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep, one thing that PV has over Soldano is econmy of scale. How many 5150s have you seen vs SLOs? PV probably builds more 5150s in a week than Soldano will build in a year. Also, PV uses cheaper parts... I would wager the transformers used in most Soldanos like the HR series, which are Mercury Magnetics, are better than what PV uses. The SLO transformers are total custom DeYoungs, and are pricey as hell. Plus the SLO has Mil-spec construction, and is warranted for life, transferable even.

                          The ONLY thing I've seen on a soldano that looked hokey was pop riveted tube sockets mounted to the chassis.

                          One other thought... if PV wasn't paying EVH for each one they sell, think how much cheaper STILL they would be. I bet his endorsement cost them plenty!

                          Pete

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                          • #14
                            Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                            I have recently acquired a 5150 and I think it sounds great. It aint no Soldano though.

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                            • #15
                              Re: 5150 and SLO schematics compared...

                              This is very true. I think the most interesting thing is how little a 5150 sounds like a SLO considering the circuit is virtually identical. I guess it goes to show how important components and layout really are. I agree with Pete that a 5150 is wonderful bang-for-buck amp, but they aren't even in the same school with the SLO, let alone the same class, when it comes to tone and durability.

                              Btw, the Dual Recto schematic is basicly a SLO copy also.

                              Pete, I'm pretty sure that the preamps are the only Soldanos you'll see sockets on the circuit board, and those are just preamp tubes so no real heat do damage anything. I know you won't find that on the SLO, but maybe I misremember that HRs.

                              Ross

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