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  • Different tubes, different tones

    Ok guys, here's the big tube type hoedown. All information below is my opinion only - the tone/sounds of the tubes is how I perceived em in a THD Univalve and also in my own custom amps that allow tube swaps.

    12ax7 - the typical preamp tube in most guitar amps sold today. These are the smallest tubes in your amp, and they usually last the longest. A 7025 used to be the high quality version, and a ECC83 was the European name for a 12ax7. Neither mean much today, as any tube manufacturer can and will use the terms interchangeably. Each of the preamp tubes listed below are actually *two* gain stages in one glass envelope. This is why an amp that has 6 gain stages doesn't have to have 6 tubes in the preamp - it may just have 3.

    5751 - Industrial 12ax7 tube, lower noise, lower gain. Great for thickening up the tone of an amp that has too much gain.

    12au7 - can be used in place of a 12ax7 for lower gain. Usually used as reverb drivers or phase inverters. These can also be used as power tubes - I have a 2 watt amp that runs one. Quite loud for what it is!

    12at7 - used mostly in old fenders, hardly ever used today.

    12dw7 - one side is a 12ax7, other side is a 12au7. Used in some old Ampegs I believe... good for cutting the gain on your amp on one gain stage. Other than that, not real useful for most of us. I doubt many guys here on the JCF think of anything having 'too much gain'.

    6V6 - lower powered tube, has the same look as a 6L6 but shorter. Sounds a lot like one too, with one very important difference: It distorts much earlier/easier, and gives out quite a bit less wattage. They also will die at typical 6L6GC voltages. The Univalve will run one of these in the 'low voltage' setting - use the normal setting for the voltage and your 6V6 will go Chernobyl on you. These tubes were used in many smaller 'student' amps in the 50s and 60s and also a few others. Most famous amps I can think of that used 6V6 power tubes were Fender Champs (tweed, BF and SF) and also Fender Princetons. Oh, and some weird little power amp built by Twister amps. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    EL84 - another lower powered tube. This guy uses the same shape socket as a preamp tube, but is a little taller. Sounds a lot like a small EL34, but they distort much easier and more than an EL34. This is a GREAT power tube if you're looking for a small marshall sound with excellent crunch at fairly low volumes. Marshall briefly made an 18 watt amp that used a pair of EL84s in the 60s (that are worth crazy money now... a big thing currently is to clone em) and the DSL20 and 40 series I believe uses them for power tubes. Other notable amps that used these: Vox AC30, Mesa Studio .22+, Peavey Classic 30 and 50 series heads.

    6L6. several variants - 6L6G, GA, GB, GC - as you go towards the GC, power ratings and handling goes up. A 5881 used to be a militarized version of the GB - nowadays it's a stout 6L6 type. The GC takes a lot of voltage and gives back lots of tone. A 6L6GC sounds slightly scooped to me - big bottom, clean highs, but a slightly hollow tone. Most Fender amps used 6L6 tubes, and this is likely the most popular power tube for guitar amps. These tubes do not overdrive as easily as the 6V6s, and stay tighter much longer.

    EL34. Marshalls started using these in their amps because they couldn't get 6L6s easily, and EL34s were a british made tube. These take more voltage than a 6L6 can, and also need more filament current. An EL34 has a nice midrange, and gets a crunchier tone than the 6L6s. These were the Marshall tube for the longest time, and also Hiwatts used them. If you own an amp that can swap between the tube types (like a mesa recto head) the EL34s will give you more complex mids, slightly less highs and lows, but a terrific European-style crunch. The 6L6s will get you a cleaner more percussive sound but not as much midrange punch. Either sound great, I gravitate personally towards the 34s.

    6550/KT88 - These are the bad boys. Any amp that runs EL34s can be rebiased to take a set of these, but it's likely you won't see much wattage increase unless the amp was designed FOR these tubes in the first place. KT88/6550s have a solid bottom and are harder than hell to distort - a power amp built with these will give pummeling tones. Some VHT power amps use these, also crazily high powered amps like the Fender 400 (yes, 400 watts, all tube) and the *cough* Crate BV300 head. Also some Ampeg SVT heads. These tubes are also very expensive new even for the cheaper imports and are wide in the middle like a coke bottle.

    My recommendations for tubes, in no particular order:

    12ax7/preamp Vintage - RCA7025, Mullard (any), Telefunken, GE, Sylvania, just about any USA or British Tube
    12ax7/preamp new: Electro Harmonix, Chinese Silver Special (early chinese, crazy high gain, some won't fit into some amps because some are a little wider than regular tubes), Chinese 12ax7C, JJs

    6V6 - any vintage USA, with RCA blackplates and JAN 107-As leading the list.
    New: I don't like any of them, but the new EH is supposed to be good.Vintage 6V6s are still cheap enough that I'd recommend old tubes.

    EL84, vintage - Telefunken, Mullard, GE, RCA
    new - EH, Sovtek. Both have a different tone, and the Sovteks are really cool sounding.

    6L6 and family - Vintage: TungSol 5881, GE, Phillips, Sylvania, RCA
    New: Groove Tubes 6L6G? (the usa one... sounds great, but pricey!) Svetlanas, the Sovtek 5881WXT

    EL34:
    Vintage - Mullard (take a 2nd mortgage out to get a matched quad NOS), Siemens, Audio Glassic
    New - JJs are pretty good, so are Svetlanas.

    Really, there isn't such a thing as a 'bad' tube - some just have better characteristics than others. A player may want an RCA 7025 to give their amp more brightness, or a 12ax7EH to tame some hiss/high end. Also remember that some amps like some types of tubes better... some high gain preamps sound best with newer tubes, some vintage amps sound TERRIBLE with newer tubes. The best thing to do is experiment. Especially if you have an expensive amp, what's $100 or so checking out the possibilities?

    If you guys have any questions, feel free to email me at [email protected].

    Pete

  • #2
    Re: Different tubes, different tones

    That was excellent. Pete gets a gold star. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Different tubes, different tones

      Hey Pete, What are tubes made out of? I mean what is in the glass tube like an EL34? I heard that tubes are cousin to the light bulb, is that true?
      Thanks. and Pete get TWO gold stars. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

      Nek

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      • #4
        Re: Different tubes, different tones

        Ok Pete I got a question, can you list off a bunch of links on where respectible tube dealers on the net, and if you've delt with them their customer service.

        Thanks

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Different tubes, different tones

          Originally posted by Marshall tone:
          Ok Pete I got a question, can you list off a bunch of links on where respectible tube dealers on the net, and if you've delt with them their customer service.

          Thanks
          <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Haven't dealt with many online, actually... but here's a list of guys I've heard good things about:

          www.eurotubes.com
          www.tubesandmore.com
          www.kcanostubes.com
          www.tubestore.com

          Pete

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Different tubes, different tones

            Originally posted by Nek:
            Hey Pete, What are tubes made out of? I mean what is in the glass tube like an EL34? I heard that tubes are cousin to the light bulb, is that true?
            Thanks. and Pete get TWO gold stars. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

            Nek
            <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Cool, I'm on my way to 5stardom until I piss someone off with a straightforward answer. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

            Tubes are glass and rare metals, mostly... I'll have to dig around, see if I can find a good explanation of em on the net.

            Pete

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Different tubes, different tones

              Pete, Why is it that you need to rebias if you replace the tubes with the exact make and model of pre and power tubes? I suppose that also begs the question for another topic (possibly) - what does it mean to bias ?

              Thanks,
              JK

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Different tubes, different tones

                Originally posted by Back For More:
                Pete, Why is it that you need to rebias if you replace the tubes with the exact make and model of pre and power tubes? I suppose that also begs the question for another topic (possibly) - what does it mean to bias ?

                Thanks,
                JK
                <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Preamp tubes don't need to be biased - they bias themselves. Power tubes have to be rebiased if you have a non-cathode biased amp - most amps with one power tube are cathode biased, most amps with two or more power tubes are not.

                Bias is basically setting the idle point of the tubes. Kinda like a car. Turn it up too high, the tubes burn out too fast. Have it too low, they last longer but the tone is terrible. There is a fairly wide operating range a tube can survive at - however, wihtin that range are different tonal qualities.

                If you buy the same rated tubes from the same vendor, you likely wouldn't have to rebias next time. It always is good to check it just in case of component drift, or mislabeled tubes... One trick a lot of guys use is for a 50watt (usually two tube) amp, they buy a QUAD of tubes, have the amp biased for the new tubes, and then when they wear out, they have two tubes that are already set up for the amp.

                I may do a 'how to bias your amp' article later. Not sure yet.

                Pete

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Different tubes, different tones

                  Thanks Pete! Armed with your advice and $200 (Yikes! I'm used to re-tubing my Single Recto! hahahaha), my complete new tube set is on it's way from http://www.tubestore.com!

                  Thanks a ton for all of your help!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Different tubes, different tones

                    Pete, give us a quick rundown of the different Mullard EL34 series,ie.XF1,XF2,etc... I have seen the "XF1" mentioned as THE El34 to own quite often. I have also seen Dynaco's sold as Mullards. Are they the same? Thanks.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Different tubes, different tones

                      I may do a 'how to bias your amp' article later. Not sure yet. [/QB]
                      <font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">do so!! [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]
                      my poweramp-tubes broke just a week ago...
                      tremstick give-away (performer series trem)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Different tubes, different tones

                        On the biasing issue...

                        I've always been curious as to whether or not it affects the amp's components to bias the power tubes hot, and just how much faster it will burn out the tubes to run them hot like that.

                        Of course, nobody wants to have to change tubes every other day, if it's that bad hehe. But, if you can liven up your sound a little by running them a little hot, if it doesn't burn them up TOO fast, and doesn't mess up any other parts of the amp, it sounds like it's a pretty cool idea, to me. Especially with an amp with the cheaper EL84 tubes in it--goose those suckers a little and get even more tubey goodness out of em hehe.

                        What's the situation with these issues?

                        Hmm...I never cease to amaze myself in coming up with what seem to be completely unanswerable questions. [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

                        [ May 29, 2003, 12:01 AM: Message edited by: StuTDavis ]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Different tubes, different tones

                          They call him Stu "threadkiller" Davis, hehe...

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Different tubes, different tones

                            [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

                            It's a good thing I don't post in a lot more areas of the board, apparently all activity would cease completely if I did!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Different tubes, different tones

                              Hey Pete, I still have 16 of those EL34/xf2 N.O.S. Mullard/GE's. I'm sure some matches could come out of the batch if I could ever get my bud to bring me his tester. I may take the first pair for my amp though. I've got some other smaller tubes in actual Mullard boxes.
                              The Buzzard does not fear
                              The man in riot gear
                              Harvest a skull of stone
                              The Buzzard grows his own...

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