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**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-15-2003, 09:13 PM

Re: Tonal study

No comments or thoughts?... you guys are breaking my heart!... I did this for you!...

**Gpops** · 05-15-2003, 09:19 PM

Re: Tonal study

give it a day or so, no one replied to my mp3 for like 2 or 3 days.

**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-15-2003, 09:20 PM

Re: Tonal study

I guess every time you post something that requires listening to it people dont just do it right away, eh?...

**Gpops** · 05-16-2003, 05:26 AM

Re: Tonal study

yeh it sucks waiting for people to listen to stuff [img]graemlins/fart.gif[/img]

**DRH** · 05-16-2003, 07:34 AM

Re: Tonal study

Hi Rodrigo,

Stupid question, what is an EXG circuit?

I like configuration 2 the best followed by 3,5,6 in no particular order. The tone fits the style the best with 2 IMO. I am not to fond of configuraion 1, a little too harsh for me.
I have always liked neck and middle PUs over bridge for cleans in most instances anyway.

Thanks for taking the time to do this.

DRH

**Cleveland Metal** · 05-16-2003, 08:45 AM

Re: Tonal study

I think many people don't exactly know what to say about this really other than keep it for background knowledge.

I hadn't commented as I have 81s and SA's laying around and I use the PA-2 circuit wich I believe is close the one you used. I know what they sound like. No reason for me to clutter the field with "yeah, me too" post.

I can at least say thank you for taking time to do something useful like this as it is quite helpful for people making decisions about these products.

Never did like the SA's very much myself... I'd like to hear a guitar with an HS-3 or YJM pickup and an EMG 81, on isolated circuits of course and see just how drastic the sonic difference would be.

Cool concept Rodrigo...

**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-16-2003, 11:32 AM

Re: Tonal study

Originally posted by DRH:
Hi Rodrigo,

Stupid question, what is an EXG circuit?

DRH

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">It is one of EMG's EQ circuits... take a look at page 41 here:

EMG Product catalogue

I like configuration 2 the best followed by 3,5,6 in no particular order. The tone fits the style the best with 2 IMO. I am not to fond of configuraion 1, a little too harsh for me.
I have always liked neck and middle PUs over bridge for cleans in most instances anyway.

DRH

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Ok, I like these comments...

I agree that the clean sound of the 81 is harsh... I really feel that way. Some people say that it is ok but I think you got to really tweak your EQ to improve it... it doesnt really sound bad but it is just not my cup of tea I guess...

I really like 2 and 3!... that is the type of clean sound that I crave before processing the signal I think.

I think the guitar loses its life when I pull off the EMG circuit!... I dobnt like the sound of 4,5 or 6 specially... they are ok I guess.

I like the S/S/H configuration because it allows the most tonal flexibility I think...

I think also part of the exercise was to show the coloring gthat the EL84's give to my sound... I really regret that I didnt record this clip with the 50/50 as well.. that would had been better.

Thanks for taking the time to do this.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problem.

I want to create like a "tone" database where I try different products on basic configurations... I would actually like to record the effect that for example different tubes have in the 20/20 and the Carvin I am getting next week.

[ May 16, 2003, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-16-2003, 11:39 AM

Re: Tonal study

John... actually I think the PA-2 is just a boost circuit isn't it?...

I would really like to hear some clips from you going throught the differet channels of that CAE preamp you have!

I would also like to know how you pull a decent clean sound out of your 81's... I might be going something wrong...

[ May 16, 2003, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

**Budman68** · 05-16-2003, 11:56 AM

Re: Tonal study

First of all Rodrigo, a BIG thanks for doing this experiment. It allowed me to "preview" what the sound "might" be like with EMG's installed. As for the EXG, it sounds to me like that isn't very much different than the 1200 preamp that came in the Model 6's or 4's or the 650XL like you have. Tell me something, now that you have had both units(the 1200 preamp with the midboost circuit, and the EXG in that same guitar, how much better does it really sound? My hearing must suck because I honestly don't hear much difference between those two setups [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] . I hear some difference but not enough to warrant me to run out and buy the EMG's and the EXG circuit. Thanks again for your time! [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

Dave->

**Budman68** · 05-16-2003, 01:49 PM

Re: Tonal study

Sounds like some nice gear you have coming your way! I'll be interested to see what you think of those items.

Thanks again Rodrigo, your helpful as always.
Dave->

**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-16-2003, 02:06 PM

Re: Tonal study

no problem, I love doing all this sh1t!... it is the best way I have ever found to use my engineering analysis skills!.. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] (as in I hate everything else related to my career in any way)

You will not only hear my opinion but the items themselves!... I will play tons with that because I will be handing in the final version of my thesis on tuesday and will have a couple of weeks COMPLETELY spare to play!... fun!...

[ May 16, 2003, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

**Dreamland_Rebel** · 05-16-2003, 02:20 PM

Re: Tonal study

i made a custom pickguard for my strat with and 85-sa-81 volume exg and spc

the exg i didn't like too much. could not use it in distortion - made things more muddy. it was ok in clean on the 85 up front but not really needed. it was really only useful on the middle position sa and then it didn't make the clean sound that much better.

i did like the spc (basically the same thing as the 1200 you were talking about (hey didn't i send you that?) anyway. it was a cool little boost for solos but i still didn't think it was worth the money - hell i ended up giving that guitar to my brother for his birthday. or was it christmas? anyway i'm now a conver to the Kirk Hammet or Kia Hansen setup - double 81's baby! thats the way! granted for non metal stuff the 85 sounds amazing in the bridge, but for the screaming metal is an 81 all the way. and i agree with whoever said they don't like the sa's. i've had them for years and i'm done with them. the charvel single coil in my avenger sounds way way better (actually it just plain sounds damn good) does anyone know what pickup this is? i know its passive and is covered with the guitar logo.
i've been expirimenting for years with tones.

i was talking with Paul Reed Smith about it and he told me several things that have stuck with me over the years.

1- chord length. less chord = more high end. ei. carlos santana would have a 20ft cable tucked and strapped to his guitar strap between his guitar and wirless unit, and then another one from his wireless unit to the amp.

2- old marshall settings should be ass follows (this is for 900;s and some 800's) gain 10, trebel 0, bass 10, mid 10, presence 0, volume loud as hell.
he said speaker noise as the volume increases wold bring back all the treble and presence you'd ever need and that anymore would drown your tone out with white noise. he said if you don't think there is enough high end then turn up! and you know what - he's absolutely right! i tried it on a 100watt 900. it sounded great with the band (not so great by itself but not bad either) he talked about how playing by yourself and with a band are two different worlds and that the guitar sound you like by your self usueally will not work with a band.
he also said his guitars are the best. but thats the only advice from him i decided not to take hehheh.

**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-16-2003, 02:30 PM

Re: Tonal study

DLR: Yes, I agree with your interpretation of the circuits... the EXG is definitely not a distortion guy! (neither am I [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] )...

I always use the following principles for EQ of distorted sounds:

1) Scoop out all bass and treble possible before the preamp... the band that best responds to distortion is the mid and therefore thats the want you want to feed your preamp with.

This is the the reason to do this (lots of thought have gone here!):

If you do a fourier analysis of a distorted signal you will always get the fundamental being reduced in amplitude plus a series of higher order harmonics which are odd or/and even multiples of the fundamental.

If you distort a low frequency signal, the harmonics from it are going to lie on top of your mid and high ranges and that's where you get "mud" from. Mud is in fact the superposition of different non-related sounds in the same band of the signal spectrum.

If you distort the high end, then that creates more high end, which is usually not very pleasant to the ear (but you can kill easy with your EQ because it doesnt superpose with anything of interest)....

So, if you think about this, distorting your midrange is most likely to create a more round and pleasant sound at the end and the other two bands should be kept out of the equation.

2) After the preamp, EQ again and put your trebles and bass back. This will give you all the range but not the mud!...

This is something I have learned and tried based on peoples comments here in the JCF and it works like a charm for heavy/trash metal type distorted sounds. It is probably the reason why you like the SPC better... definitely any of these circuits can be replaced with an EQ in front of your preamp... that is probably the best bet actually.

Conclusion:

SPC for distortion
EXG for clean

[ May 16, 2003, 03:00 PM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

**rodrigo_echeverri** · 05-17-2003, 12:00 AM

Re: Tonal study

no problem!...

Dave... actually you wont like to hear this because it is going to confuse you but the EXG and the 1200 are supposed to be the opposite!.

The one you have is a mid-boost. The EXG is a treble and bass boost!... I can hear what the EXG does to my sound clearly but I can't hear the Jackson circuit much... however I am sure there is a way to mod taht circuit to make it more agressive... hmmm... now you got me thinking....

[ May 16, 2003, 12:03 PM: Message edited by: rodrigo_echeverri ]

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