What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

[Number Of The Priest]

Don't get me wrong. I like the way a little bit of bass thickens up the sound sometimes. It's probably because I practice with a bassist often that carries the lower frequencies.

Are the bass frequencies really that enticing to you? I mean, I agree that all treble and no bass makes jack a dull (and shrill) sound.

[It's All In My H3ad]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

Well....I do like bass in my sound, but not so much to make it muddy. I like it becouse well....I'm basically growing up with "nu-metal" and "mainstream metal", so those are basically the styles that are "in" for me. I really don't like the way guitars sounded on the 80's becouse they sound like theres something else needed in the sound. But well....thats just me. [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

[MetalChef]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

I think it has to do with the rise of Death/Extream metal really.

As the more grinding bands appeared, they wanted to take it all to a heavier, more crushing level.

Soo..if you have a Bass heavy guitar sound being backed up by a bass, you get IMPACT. Try playing a riff that is grinding on the low E with a non bassy sound, then one when you have big low end chunk along with a bass player.

you will see a huge change in the grind!

Altough..the insane levels of tune down all these "nu" bands use kinda annoys me. I saw korn opening for MEgadeth in 95..they were so muddy, there was no pitch..just bass like rhythms.

[DeadNight Warrior]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

That's not really right though. If you have a bass-heavy guitar tone, maybe add a second guitar with the same tone to the mix, then slap in a nice bassy bass sound, you're gonna get a very boomy mix that sounds like utter McKracken. To compensate for this, you either have to take down the bass guitar's low freqencies, take down the guitars' lows, or a little of both. Really, bass guitar and the bass drum handle the low frequencies far better than guitar, so why not leave it to them, rather than crank up the guitar's low end for that ugly loose bass sound that the guitar gives. For a thick guitar tone, what you really need is the low-mid frequencies, not low freqencies.

On its own, a bass-heavy tone might sound ok, but slap it in a mix and you might find that it's not so good after all.

[trillian guitars]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

i dont think its so much more bass as it is less or no mids....

[Ninja Guitar]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

I like a lot of bass, unless it gets too muddy. My amp has really sucky bass, so I kinda crave bass right now. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] But I also want midrange power and strong highs.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

I like an authoritive bass that is just above the bass players frequencies. I have chased a good tight low end that has a nice edge with harmonics for some time now, I'm at least pretty close now...

Strong upper bass freqs give a good chug and helps give the grind that punch. Sadly many bass players don't have a great sound down low or realize they must emphasize the sub low freqs to get that chest pounding sound. And I end up competing with them for those upper bass frequencies.

[Gpops]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

I just like the low-mid frequencies to be tight and good enough for some awesome palm-muting, but i would never compromise my mid-high frequencies for too much bass. I like tight, heavy, muted riffs, along with awesome lead sounds.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

i dont think its so much more bass as it is less or no mids....

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">you said it man. everybody these days are scooping thier mids, which looses everthing the electric guitar is capable of producing in the first place. and to make up for that guitarists these days are adding insane amounts of presence which totally washes out everything and makes it quieter ,in a sonic perspective, but is louder actual decibles.

you can leave your bass turned up as loud as you want if your your mids are in there good. but you got to get rid of some of that presence and get your clarity and vulome up at the same time. basically you can just turn the presence off and if there isn't enough high end, you are not playing loud enough for your amp vs. cab wattages.


Paul Reed Smith once told me that the best distorion was achieved by (ex: Mashall 8 and 900's)turning the bass and mids all the way up. and your presence and treble all the way down. sounds crazy but the mids on most tube amps have tons of highs and low as well as mids. and to acheive the desired amount of white noise then you must turn the amp up loud enough to push the tubes as well as the speakers. then you have your wall of sound complete with harmonics and clarity. (paraphased)

with the masa amps i have found that the old sseries (5 band eq style) need the treble up in there as well, bassed on the way they wire the tone section. but no presence is needed. the rectifier series is basses more on the design of the marshalls and you can leave the presence and treble off with the mid and bass cranked and if you turn up any treble or presence you get and instant cut in vulome. you just have to play loud as hell. but you got to remember that 100 watt amps were made to play in big venues. thats why i recently bumbed down to 50 watt amps. playing culbs and **** doesn't need 100 watters, even dave mustain used a power brake to play the clubs. the sound guy is always telling the guitarist to turn down.

anyway. i just wanted to share my thoughts on this cause its an issue with 90% of the newer **** out there. it really bothers me that with the technology we have now verses what we had then, most of those albums sound way way better. just compare your favorite new metal cd with older albums. even glam metal cds sound better. sorry for such a long post this issue just really bothers me when i go to a metal show or buy a new metal cd.
~JW

[diablomozart]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

i have a bass player...why would i want more bass in my tone? [img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] ...mids are what make a guitar sound really cut through in a mix...that being said, one should go for what they feel sounds right to their ears...not what's currently "in style"...you'll be happier in the long run...d.m.

[Steve]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

Originally posted by Number Of The Priest:
Don't get me wrong. I like the way a little bit of bass thickens up the sound sometimes. It's probably because I practice with a bassist often that carries the lower frequencies.

Are the bass frequencies really that enticing to you? I mean, I agree that all treble and no bass makes jack a dull (and shrill) sound.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">yeah I perfer punch myself not bass , and if you have a real bassy tone you got to ajust it anyway in a band situation or you'd be drowned out , or be known as mister fuzzy bass guitar tone [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] //Steve

[Steve]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

Originally posted by MetalChef:
I think it has to do with the rise of Death/Extream metal really.

As the more grinding bands appeared, they wanted to take it all to a heavier, more crushing level.

Soo..if you have a Bass heavy guitar sound being backed up by a bass, you get IMPACT. Try playing a riff that is grinding on the low E with a non bassy sound, then one when you have big low end chunk along with a bass player.

you will see a huge change in the grind!

Altough..the insane levels of tune down all these "nu" bands use kinda annoys me. I saw korn opening for MEgadeth in 95..they were so muddy, there was no pitch..just bass like rhythms.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">and also most grind players don't palm mute the fast stuff it's all open and it would sound pretty dumb with the mids cranks for that style of music , I wish they would mute cause it would be a hell of a lot harder than open picking anyone can do that lol ! //Steve

[Newc]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

I like a little bass in my tone, but not at the same frequencies a real bass or drums would cover. I don't like a totally flat tone where the low, mid, and highs are even, and I don't like one that when heard alone sounds thin (unless it's never heard alone).

Newc

[MetalChef]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

Originally posted by DeadNight Warrior:
That's not really right though. If you have a bass-heavy guitar tone, maybe add a second guitar with the same tone to the mix, then slap in a nice bassy bass sound, you're gonna get a very boomy mix that sounds like utter McKracken. To compensate for this, you either have to take down the bass guitar's low freqencies, take down the guitars' lows, or a little of both. Really, bass guitar and the bass drum handle the low frequencies far better than guitar, so why not leave it to them, rather than crank up the guitar's low end for that ugly loose bass sound that the guitar gives. For a thick guitar tone, what you really need is the low-mid frequencies, not low freqencies.

On its own, a bass-heavy tone might sound ok, but slap it in a mix and you might find that it's not so good after all.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with you 100%!

I just noticed with lots of grind players and the "nu" players, this is a common occurance. Hence my Korn reference when I saw them open for Megadeth, they are so de-tuned and using such a bassy sound(or were at show I was at in San Fran), it was just mud.

I like mids in my sound...I think they give the guitar bite. Try a pinch harmonic with a scooped out mid sound, then with a bit of mids..the way they sound is night and day.

I would rather lose a bit of bass, let the bass player drive on that, and have a bit more of a scream out of my guitar. I can punch over the rhythm section, and let them do what they are supposed to do.

[Black Mariah]

Re: What is it with guitarists always looking for more bass in their sound?

Why do I want insane amount of bass? Because I like it, that's why. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] There's a perfect balance between not enough and too much. Whenever the bass starts becoming prominent is when it's time to turn it down. Interestingly enough I don't scoop the mids to get that super bassy sound. I actually cut a lot from 125-200Hz and also between 3-6KHz. This cuts down on the amp farting out when cranked and also keeps it from shredding my ears. My ideal tone is just freaking HUGE while still maintaining definition. The closest I've heard to what I'm looking for is Mortician. They're a bit too muddy for my taste, but that's the general idea.