Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

[jeff300]

OK... I play through a Univox combo amp with a Boss Heavy Metal (HM2) distortion stomp box.

When I use my 57 Strat or my Les Paul Custom, I get killer distorted tones (albeit very different) out of my gear.

With my Fusion Special, no matter how much damned tweaking of the pedal, the amp or the pickup selection, I end up with very thin and blah tone.

I know this is all subjective, but if anyone can relate, can you tell me how to get decent fat distorted sound with my Fusion? Is the HM2 not suited to whatever kind of pickups the Fusion has? Or do the pickups in the Fusion Special just suck ass as I suspect?

Any recommendations for other distortion units? Other pickups? Remember, I don't have much choice for pickup swaps given the double-stack configuration on the 'Special.

I really love the look and feel of the 'Special, I just wish it sounded better.

Thanks.

[Gpops]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Its probably your pickups. I dont know what Fusions came with, but since you mentioned that it sounds "thin" i would guess it is a JB. I know someone here is going to tell you to replace it with a duncan distortion, that is if thats the problem.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

EMG 81...

[StuTDavis]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

I'm not familiar with the model "Fusion Special". Is that a USA-made guitar?

If it's not, sure, it could be the pickups. Or, it could be the wood. Import guitars can be a little suspect as to wood quality, and a guitar made of bad wood will just never get "great".

If it's a USA, it could still be the pickups. On a USA, I wouldn't suspect the wood's quality.

In either case, before you go slapping pickups in there, I always think it would be good to know what kind of wood the guitar is made of. And I'd want to know its origin, so I could know if the wood quality might be suspect, too.

Stu

[jeff300]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Cleve, to put an EMG in there would require serious routing.

It looks like this:


Stu, its a Japanese model. I might be inclined to accept your theory if we were talking about clean tone. For distortion, I don't think the resonance off the body has much to do with the sound. That part of the sound gets all washed away.

[ June 15, 2003, 09:10 PM: Message edited by: jeff300 ]

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Yikes! Lotsa routing...

I'd not think it's the body. I'd think it's the pickups...

Get to liking the sound or get rid of it.

Bummer...

[Black Mariah]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Wire up a couple of Hot Rails in there. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] The pickups in the bridge are the same as the neck pickups. Two separate singles wired up as a humbucker (or are they stacked singles? Can't remember).

[Hotrodder]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

They are stacked singles, and the 5 way switch is wired just like a stock strat, No "real" humbucker sounds.


I posted what I'm planning for my Fusion in this thread

http://www.jcfonline.com/ubb/noncgi/...c;f=5;t=000269

[StuTDavis]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

jeff300,

I'm always surprised when people say they don't think the wood of a guitar affects its tone much. Trust me, it defintely does. Good example: several years ago, I got this really stupid notion to buy this nice looking Venson guitar. Yeah, I know, Venson? Anyway, it looked great, and seemed to play OK in the store, and I got it for really cheap. I had much better guitars at the time, just was a stupid impulsive move buying the Venson hehe. Anyway...my other guitars sounded great to me at that time, with that setup. Those guitars all had EMGs in them. The Venson, when I got it home, sounded like complete flat tone-dead crap. Hmm...the logical thing to me was, slap an EMG in there! So, I did...put an EMG-81 in the bridge. You know what, it STILL sounded like crap. And this is total crap, not just "harmonics aren't picked up as well as my other guitars" or something... it was total crap...and, yes, it was all about distortion--always is for me--the quality of my clean sound doesn't mean jack to me. Being that the electronics were all EMG, and the pickup was EMG, there's nothing else to be at question but the guitar itself. I opened up the cavities and looked at some areas where the wood was showing through. Plywood, dude...the guitar was made of freakin plywood! It might have been alder plywood or some other "legit guitar wood" plywood, but it was plywood nonetheless. Now...I don't know about you, but that sticks up a big sign in my mind saying it was the wood's fault.

That's an extreme example, but, I would say, a good setup, to someone with a good ear, will always show the differences between one guitar and its wood vs. another. Almost all of my guitars now (about 10) have EMG-81s in them, they all are pretty much the same hardware (right down to the fretwire brand and gauge, on some) and every one of them sounds at least slightly different. It's the wood.

Anyway...just some thoughts...the issue you describe doesn't necessarily say you have crap wood, but it could be due to the wood type itself, in my mind. And knowing that wood type as well as EXACTLY what you hear/feel VS what you want to hear/feel can help give a clue as to what would be a good pickup to put in the guitar. But hey, you might think this whole post is a steaming pile of useless bull, and that's fine too...people don't have to agree...I'm just trying to help hehehe.

Good luck,

Stu

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Stu, wood makes a lot of difference, I assure you. But usually won't make it sound absolutely totally horrid.

My guitars all sound different with EMGs, some better some worse...

My stage guitars, in order of good tone, good to bad...

70s Gibson SG (Amazing)
USA BC Rich SST (Very pleasing)
Charvel 475 (useably pleasing)
Charvel Model 4 (useably pleasing)
USA Fusion (not my favored tonal piece, muddy low end, but plays awesome)

And those choices are all about the wood.

[StuTDavis]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

John,

Yup...that's why I was saying it just as a possibility I think it's important to be aware of, not saying that it was definitely the case, and certainly not saying that he shouldn't try slapping some new pickups in there.

If you know the possibilities of a situation, once you try one solution, you can better evaluate which of those possibilities might be true in your situation. In this case...if the guy slapped some completely different pickups in the guitar and it still had a "thin and blah tone", that pickup may simply have similar characteristics to the original pickups, OR, in my opinion, it could also have something to do with the quality of the guitar's wood, in a situation like that. If you know it's a USA Jackson, the quality of the wood would, then, be much less a possibility. If it's an Import Jackson, the possibility of having less quality wood goes up significantly, in my opinion. Though in this, of course, I'm not saying that every Import has suspect quality wood--the suspectability and possibility simply are higher, in my opinion, on Imports vs. USAs. Someone could go to a lot of waste hassle and expense changing out pickup after pickup, always looking for "the right pickup", if they do not realize the possibility that it's really the guitar itself, and why.

I just think it's smart to have an idea of what you have, so you have a better idea of where you want to go. And I find it important to know what type of wood a guitar is made of, and exactly where someone's sound is vs. where they want it to go, before I try to suggest a pickup for them.

Have fun,

Stu

[jeff300]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Thanks for all the input so far. Now let's get more specific.

Assuming I don't want to change the general characteristics of the guitar, but want to improve the tone by replacing the pickups with the same kind but better sounding ones....

What are my options for drop-in stacked 'buckers to replace the Charvel ones?

[jgcable]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Put Duncan Hot Rails in the bridge. They are monsters!! Put a Cool Rail in the neck. It is an awesome neck pickup and it will match the bridge. One Hot rail is awesome, 2 would be sick. I would suggest wiring in a switch to turn one off or at least be able to tap one of them.

[charvelguy]

Re: Getting good distortion sound out of my Fusion Special...

Those pups you have now are about medium output for a single coil. If you want active...Seymour Duncan Live wire single coil active p/u.. there's a trio set on eBay for 130.00. The hottest SC pup you can buy... a pair of them together..lookout.
Personally..I've seen guys wire 2 EMG SA in the bridge and put another in the neck on the Fusion special, which would probably be a good match as the SA aren't as hot as the SD Rails.. or you could just put a couple Dimarzio med output passive strat pups like a HS-2 or a vintage strat and wire them together in the bridge.

[ June 16, 2003, 04:23 PM: Message edited by: charvelguy ]