What's more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

[Misanthrope189]

I've heard a lot about different 12ax7s, particularly the chinese type, and how much better they are in the triaxis than the stock mesa 12ax7s...so I guess I'm curious as to what I should do first to improve my tone...buy better cables...or buy different tubes.

Cheers,
Nick

[Black Mariah]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

TUBES. I've played through the s**ttiest Radio Shack twirly things and the best Monster Cables money can buy and didn't notice any difference. IMO, with cables you're mostly looking at a reliability issue when you go cheaper. Don't cheap out but don't bother with the high end stuff unless you're Eric Johnson.

Tubes however can completely change the way your amplifier sounds and feels. They're a fairly cheap and easy way to change your tone without buying a new amp.

[LesPaulCustom]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

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Woah camel, I said WOAH!!!!!!!!! I feel compelled to respond to this one.....

Tubes are very subjective, some people like different brands, variations of the same "mother" tube etc. I think that the better tubes today are made by Mesa Boogie and Groove Tubes, this is just my opinion.....

Cables....man....I don't care what anybody says, the cable DOES make a difference. From a purely scientific point, larger diameter wire (conductor) will allow more current to pass more freely than in a smaller cable. Also, you have to figure in capacitance, inductance, and many other factors. A high quality cable with high quality ends will ALWAYS sound better than a cheap cable, or GOD FORBID a Radio Shack POS.

This is purely my opinion, but I think most here will agree with me.
[img]graemlins/band.gif[/img]

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

For a while after I got my first electric setup I used cheap store-brand cables I got from Mars...after replacing them each a few times, I got some Spectraflex cables and they did make a huge difference, and I still have all of them but one today.

[lerxstcat]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

Q:"What's more important, breathable air or drinkable water?"

A: BOTH

[jgcable]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

Cables don't make any difference unless you are using 25' cables. Most players use approx 10' cables. Cabling is my business for the last 20 years. I know cables.

[Mr White]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

I cant comment on the tubes thing, but I have noticed a difference with cables. I went from using like sub $10 cables to using a £15 one ($25ish) and there was an great increase in tone quality and like the fidelity of the sound.
I think basically, cables arent going to change your tone, but if you're using sh*tty cables, better cables will obviously equate to a better overall sound.

Jamesy

[StuTDavis]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

I think this is obviously one of those "it depends" issues.

A big part of what it will depend on is the listener/player, which is mainly in reference to their hearing sensitivity, I believe. I've heard people say they can't tell the difference in tubes, and I know people (including myself) for whom a specific tube brand vs. another can make or break an amp. I've heard of people saying that they can't tell a difference in cables, and I've heard others say they can. I was surprised that, when I wasn't sure about my speaker cables one time, I took them to Guitar Center to try with some of theirs. I have Monster Cables, and their stock cables were these generic things. The Monster cables definitely seemed to retain a low end definition and "mass" in the sound that the generic ones didn't. Now, I haven't noticed such difference in cables within my rack or the cable from my guitar, but I have never had "really good" cables in those places, either, so I can't say, but I also can't justify paying for expensive cables all around.

I think, too, like with most issues of sound in a setup, it's probably going to depend on the setup itself, and the settings of that setup. For instance, if the setup I tried my cables with in GC didn't have a strong low end to begin with, or if I hadn't EQ'd it to bring out that low end, I might not have noticed as much difference in the speaker cables. I think the same could be said of tubes. I've found that, with tube preamps that have a very mooshy, undefined sound, trying different tubes rarely gets me much difference in sound--it's like the sound differences are masked by the preamp's own overpowering blah sound. However, in a more brilliant preamp that allows the sound spectrum to shine through, I can notice a HUGE difference in both sound and feel of tubes.
Just depends...

Stu

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

I bought a Planet Waves cable just to see what all the fuss concerning high-end cables was about. Here's a link to an audio comparison between my previous Peavey cables and my new Planet Waves cable.

http://www.jcfonline.com/ubb/noncgi/...;f=16;t=000540

You be the judge.

[JACKSONFREAK]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

Mesa and Groove tubes don't make tubes. They simply just test them and match them for pairing up. Groove tubes gets tubes from all manufacturers but are mostly Chinese and Sovteck.
They do use E.H. tubes too but those are also made in the Sovtec plant. As are most other Russian tubes. Thier just made to differnt specs per the designer.
Mesa takes the Groove Tubes and matches and rates them for thier amps and put their label on them. (ei a GT12ax7c and a Mesa 12ax7c are the same chinese 12ax7)
A quality tube will make a larger differance in a good amp than it will ina less expensive one bt it will still be noticable although possably minor. A cable will also make a differance. Monster uses gold solder which is more electro-conductive than rosen core solder creating a better signal. Also thicker gauge wire will send more current down the cable to the amp getting a better tone. It's the same theory as the shorter the pickup wire is to the controls of the guitar the hotter the signal is. Less resistance is the key. Thats why they say a longer cable should be of thicker gauge wire to produce the same current
as the shorter one.
Gil

[Matt Crooks]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

Cables don't make any difference unless you are using 25' cables. Most players use approx 10' cables. Cabling is my business for the last 20 years.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">[img]graemlins/bs.gif[/img]

Cables do make a difference, at any length. The longer the length the more effect those differences have. However, do a blind test of a standard ten foot Whirlwind cable vs. a ten foot Monster 1000 and you'll hear an obvious difference, even in ten foot cables. Of course, if the cable is not the weak link in your system (i.e. your guitar or amp are not very good), it is possible that you won't be able hear the advantages gained by using good cables.

Keep in mind that a Whirlwind will cost you $10-15, a Monster 1000 will cost you $150. It's up to you to decide if the difference

[jgcable]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

I should clarify my statement by saying that if you use poorly manufactured cables you will have problems. IMHO whether you use Conquest or Whirlwind or Planet Waves you will not hear much difference. I am sure that if you compare one of those to the $2.00 garbage cable that they "give" you when you buy a Musicyo Kramer or a Squire strat pack you will notice a difference. I am not convinced the difference will be substantial but I am sure there is a difference in tone and especially quality and longevity. I just don't see the "worth" in spending $45.00 for a 10' cable but maybe I am missing something. Here is an example. I am a Duracell dealer. Duracell has 2 types of 9 volt batteries. One is the famous copper top battery that is on all the commercials. The other is calles the Duracell Procell and it is only available for commercial use and is not a retail item. They are manufactured on the same assembly line and the only difference is the jacketing of the battery. The copper tops go to the right to be jacketed and labeled and the Procell's go to the left. They are the EXACT same battery. The Coppertop costs $4.00. The Procell is $1.50!! Put them on the counter where I work and every musician will spend $4.00 for the coppertop because it "lasts longer" even after I tell them the above story. Every commercial customer will buy the Procell because they know it is EXACTLY the same battery and it is 1/3th the price. My point is you would be surprised to find out how many different brand name cables are all manufactured at the same facility. They are just packaged and marketed differently and priced accordingly. It is very similar to how Samick makes many different brands of guitars. This is an interesting topic for sure.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

Originally posted by jgcable:
My point is you would be surprised to find out how many different brand name cables are all manufactured at the same facility. They are just packaged and marketed differently and priced accordingly. It is very similar to how Samick makes many different brands of guitars. This is an interesting topic for sure.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That must also be like how there are only four or five or six guitar string manufacturers that shotgun their products out to the "brand names" to sell in their own packaging, right? I just choose D'Addario because they give me those freaking Player's Points and are probably the same strings as the other brands without Player's Points. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

And aren't Ibanez and Schecter guitars made in the same plant using the same tools and machinery?

Next thing would be all major pickup brands having their pickups made by one company or something crazy like that. [img]graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

You are exactly right. A majority of these high end cable "manufacturers" are not manufacturers at all. They are either brokers or distributors who have their product private labeled by the major manufacturer that you never even heard of like for instance C & M Corporation. They make cables for everybody yet nobody ever heard of them. Monster Cable is the biggest marketing scam on the planet IMHO. I have been selling exact ='s to monster cable at 1/10 of the price forever. I do admire their marketing and their profit margin though. I just don't contribute to it. I guess its down to whatever blows your skirt up.

[nor]

Re: What\'s more important to tone, good cables, or tubes?

Overall signal quality can only be as good as the weakest link in the signal path will allow it to be.

Switching from 'look what I found' cables to Monster made a signifigant and very audible difference for me.