This has bugged me for a while...

[Newc]

Ok, years and years ago I read in a magzine that David Gilmour uses a Boss Super Overdrive in front of his Marshall. Now, I assume this to mean his guitar goes into the pedal, then into the amp, and his distortion is coming from the pedal itself, with the head there to provide power only.
Now, since Gilmour is not using raging metal tones, I can see how he could settle for that kinda thing, but take someone like Rhoads who used an MXR Distortion+ into a Marshall, and you've got raging Metal/solo tones that were the foundation of today's Metal tones (or damn near).

I always thought these amps were modified in some way so that by turning on the pedal, you turn on the amp's Gain/Distortion channel at the same time, and you use both the amp's distortion and the pedal at the same time. I found out years ago that this was not the case - they were either using the pedal alone or they were hitting both the amp's footswitch and the pedal at once (or a tech was doing it).
I also am aware that Gilmour uses a Bradshaw system, which can do 15 things at once [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Has anyone ever tried to make a pedal like the Super Overdrive or TubeScreamer that had an extra jack to run into the amp's footswitch jack, so that turning on the pedal switches to the amp's gain/lead/whatever channel?

What's the most common way to use a pedal (Metal Zone, Tube Screamer, etc etc) with a tube amp head like Marshall (i.e. is it just kicked in for solos and out for rhythm)?

Newc

[thenine]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

Newc I assume you are talking about pro players here. Of course, those guys use everything. And in the studio there is even more to play with [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Most of the guys I know playing Marshalls will typically use a pedal to turn a 2 channel Marshall into a 3 channel amp. Ch 1 for clean, run the dirty channel very crunchy and fire up their pedal (typically a tube screamer or SD-1) for metal tones.

I did away with all that for myself when I got my XTC! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

JOHN

[Chuckracer]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

You got it Newc. With a single channel Marshall and a tube screamer or something, just kick it in for solos, out for rhythms, and roll back the guitars volume for clean(ish).
Randy's Marshalls were all single channel heads back then, so any tonal varation had to come from pedals and guitar manipulation.
Ahh...the bad old days!

[rstites]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

Almost all of the classic metal and hard rock sounds come from single channel Marshalls that are just turned loud enough for them to distort (most are the non-master volume Marshalls) with some sort of pedal in front to kick them over the top. Also this is the era when high output pickups became popular because they also help push the front end of the amp just a bit more. There's no channel switching going on and in many cases, no pedal even.

Most of these guys had multiple amps on stage and many really would set one up for clean and another for distortion: set one super lead with the volume on 3 and another with the volume on 8. The first is pretty clean and the second is a pretty distorted, but the volume of the two is very close. Then kick your pedal in to put the 2nd over the top. (Of course, lots of guys would run a Fender Twin Reverb, an Ampeg, a Hiwatt, or ??? for clean and A/B between it and the Marshall for distortion.)

Ross

[RacerX]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

I have a modded 2 channel JCM800.....which is "stuck" on the dirty channel (lost the Marshall footswitch). For a long time I played with no pedals at all. For clean parts (duh, what's that? [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) I roll back the guitar's volume knob. I recently got an ART Xtreme and a much-needed BOSS Noise Gate. So now I am experimenting with my extra gain! [img]graemlins/band.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

Originally posted by RacerX:
I have a modded 2 channel JCM800.....which is "stuck" on the dirty channel (lost the Marshall footswitch).

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Man, that sucks! Who's the dope that modded it and forgot to add a little switch to the front panel of the amp?!? You could always call Marshall in Melville, NY and order a new footswitch.

[jeff300]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

You know, its real easy to make a replacement footswitch. You might not have a nice little metal Marshall-labelled box, but you can have something nice and functional for about $10 and 30 minutes of work.

[lerxstcat]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

Newc, the SD1 and Tube Screamers aren't
really distortions, but overdrives. So
Gilmour would still use the amp's distortion for crunchy rhythm, rolling back his guitar volume for clean, and hitting the pedal as a volume boost that adds some grit, but without changing the
basic tone too much, for leads. Gilmour
is also known as the champion stomp box
rockstar, and has probably used every
distortion box made on record,not just an
SD1.

An SD1 or Tube Screamer is very different
from a Metal Zone in that the Metal Zone
is a real distortion generator, MEANT to
completely change your guitar tone. The
overdrives are meant to boost and fatten
the existing tone.

Ron, how do you like the Xtreme so far?
I haven't used mine lately but I'm still fond of it!

[RacerX]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

Originally posted by jeff300:
You know, its real easy to make a replacement footswitch. You might not have a nice little metal Marshall-labelled box, but you can have something nice and functional for about $10 and 30 minutes of work.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yeah I asked Pete to point me to a website. I know there's one that shows you but I can't find it....or am too lazy... [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Newc]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

Lerx - I was slightly aware that the ODs were not distortion generators in the same sense as the Metal Zone or Distortion + (having owned an SD-1), but the part that was confusing me was how they got the amp to switch to the gain channel, or if they left it on all the time and then used the pedal as a boost (as has been stated here).
Still, I'd like to see one of these pedals modded to handle amp switching as well as providing boost, however it's not really feasible as a production model with today's high-gain "Swiss Army" amps. Maybe if it was aimed at the vintage market...

Newc

[lerxstcat]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

Well, commercial channel-switching models
didn't really hit the market until the early 80s, except Mesa which was "the" boutique amp back then. So for real vintage amps, you'd have to mod it to HAVE clean and dirty channels. Don't know if the vintage market even wants that when they can plug a Twin Tube into the front end, unplug it when they want,
and still have an amp that hasn't been devalued by a $400 mod.

For amps that DO have channel switching,
it might be useful to be able to do what
you describe IF you could ALSO retain the ability to switch them separately so you could go 1, 2, 3, or straight from 1 to 3
in terms of drive. Otherwise it might be
more of a handicap than an aid.

[toejam]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

You want three channels? Get a Tech 21 SansAmp Tri-A.C. pedal. Three programmable channels... Fender/Marshall/Mesa-Boogie sounds! You can program each switch to any sound you want. Hell, if you want three different Marshall sounds... presto! I've got one and absolutely love it. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[ July 13, 2003, 01:51 AM: Message edited by: toejam ]

[JACKSONFREAK]

Re: This has bugged me for a while...

As a side note the Roland FS-1 foot switch works with single function channel switching Marshalls. By single function I mean channel switching or reverb. A single button footswitch with a single conducter cable.
Gil