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**Firebird V** · 07-22-2003, 10:10 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

bogner/halfler Giant is one you dont have listed.... Oh and the Peavey Rockmaster and Fender m-80 preamps are cool too. And Cheap! ADA preamps too but they dont get Really heavy... to me anyways but either do some of the other ones on your list so... I would go with a 5150 head. That will certainly do it for death metal. Add a Ge-7 eq and a NS-2 noise gate and your there.

[ July 22, 2003, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: Firebird V ]

**Gilbert** · 07-22-2003, 10:17 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

Thanks for those additions. I'll look into those as well. as far as the 5150, i dont need a head. I already have a mesa simul 2:90 wich is all the power i'll ever need, as well as a rack full of good sh1t. I just need the best preamp for my style.

[ July 22, 2003, 10:18 AM: Message edited by: Gilbert ]

**Firebird V** · 07-22-2003, 10:55 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

I have owned the 2120 and that did not do it for me. I also have owned the Real Tube as well and that had a nice raw sound but it didn't do it for me either. I have the Quad x right now. I would recommend puting an overdrive or distortion pedal on Ch 3. It does get a good gain on Channel 4 ( The older series - i.e. non midi units have a bit more gain - I own the older one) but If you add an OD-1 (Boss) Into the effects loop of just channel 3 it is amazing sounding. I run a Dual Rectifier Rackmount and also have a 5150 head so this is why I suggested the 5150 setup. Good Luck!

**pro-fusion** · 07-22-2003, 11:53 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

I have a Rocktron Chameleon, and you can get a very extreme sound out of that. The Chameleon is basically a Voodu Valve without the tube. Doesn't sound cold to me. You can go all the way from shredding leads to brutal scooped rhythm stuff. I use it the following way: Chameleon-->ADA Ampulator-->fx returns of Digitech 2101-->mixing board.

The key here is the Ampulator--it's a speaker *and* power amp simulator. The Chameleon sounds great through the Ampulator, so I suspect it would sound tremendous through a real power amp. The tube section in the Voodu Valve is supposed to warm up the sound, but I have read complaints that it muddies things up.

The earlier versions of the Chameleon had a post preamp-EQ section that makes it much more versatile, where the new ones don't. I use the 15-band graphic EQ effect in the 2101 to get the same thing. I'm sure fancy $$$$ preamps are going to be great, but the Chameleon sounds pretty killer at a budget price.

**charvelguy** · 07-22-2003, 01:17 PM

Re: ok, preamps.

MP-2's show up on eBay quite often. they'll go in the 'hood of 200+, sometimes you may get lucky and score one for under that. If they're anything like the MP-1's solid state sound or clean sounds, they are not crystal at higher volumes.. you still have clip thru the tubes.

The Rocktron stuff is more.. usually 50-100.00 depending on the unit. I haven't played with editing the sounds to much on my Voodu Valve, but the clean seems very clean..moreso than the ADA.

I just need to bring the volumes up to match the gain sounds, or the gain down with the variac.

The Voodu is more flexible than the ADA, but for some reason.. I love the ADA as it's simple to program and operate and the MP-2 has the added effects which really enhance the unit over an MP1.
If you don't need pitch shift.. it is a nice unit. Run it with a midi parametric like a Roland and you have alot of tonal flexibility.

[ July 22, 2003, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: charvelguy ]

**StuTDavis** · 07-22-2003, 03:42 PM

Re: ok, preamps.

I think, partly, this is going to depend on how much "extra junk" you are willing to use with any of these units. You're used to the 2101--one of the most programmable and flexible units ever made--and you have a TON of goodies in there to tweak the sound with. A lot of these other units are preamp-ONLY units. The thing is, if you are willing to throw other rack units at them--EQs, BBE etc--you CAN get some massive sounds out of a wide variety of units. Some of them will end up with more "tube feel and sensitivity" than others (if you care about that at all) as well.

For instance... I have the Egnater M4, which is what the Randal RM4 you have is based on. By itself, would I say it's "death metal"? No way. But, throw some other goodies at itm, and it's got a massive thrash (or death, I suppose) metal sound. Being an all-tube based unit--including tube front-end input buffer--it generally works well with stuff up front, as well as stuff in the loop, or after it entirely. You get noise with boosting anything, just like anything else, and a good HUSH can help a lot. Other tube units like the Soldano, CAE, Carvin Quad-X, etc that you have listed there would probably work well with other units in various positions (my, that sounds provocative hehe). Some of the tube/ss hybrid units aren't that flexible.

However, some of the all-tube units have always felt and sounded, to me, to be...kinda dead on their own. Tend to need the most extra gear to get them into the hypermetal area of sound, I think. And some of them just don't have good feel at all--like beating a dead horse trying to get sound out of them. The Real Tube 2 I tried was like that, to me. It seems a lot of rack units can be like that, in general. The sound can be there, but the feel is just not natural. Again, I don't know how important that is to you.

The ADA units were mentioned. I did a very cursory try of an MP-1 in a store, once, and it was like this to me...just not much in the way of feel. But, sometimes other units can help this. Boosting the front can help. A VHT Ampulator tube buffer can help. A tube-distortion-pedal up front can help. The MP-2 took the MP-1 and added more features. Some people don't like them as much as the MP-1, but the MP-2 can get more of the sound you want "on its own", because of extended EQ section inside.

I have done very short tries on the Mesa Triaxis and Formula (or was it Quad?). I dunno...I guess, if you like Mesa sound, and you throw a lot of other goodies at them, you can get a good sound. Mesa sound is a little bit girthy and smoothed-out for what I would consider death metal sound, to me, on its own...maybe with a LOT of extra EQing. But, at that point, I'd say why not start out with something more suited to the basic sound in the first place?

The VHT GP-3 is a pretty cool tube preamp. It has a circuit on it specifically designed to help its feel and sensitivity--gets a big plus in my book. Its sound, on its own, hmm...from what I've tried of it, was a bit too "refined" for death metal, and you might need some addiitonal EQing etc to get it there, depending on what kind of death metal sound you want.

The Rocktron Chameleon (no tube) & Voodu (1 tube) units are great all-in-one type units. A friend of mine had a Cham2000--cold, hard-edged death metal sound is definitely in there. The Voodu is a bit more on the tube-girthy sound, but had, I dunno, a weird little character to the sound, to me. Rocktron units have some of the best "feel" of any preamp/effects units I've ever used. You didn't list the Prophesy--it's the most powerful and flexible of the Rocktron units, has a different sound. All of these units are extremly configurable, though, with both pre and post EQ sections and other EQing you can do inside them to get a huge variety of sound. Also might keep you from needing as many other units to get them to "death metal".

The Marshall JMP-1 is great if you want Marshall sound...but a little stiff in feel, to me. The Piranha is like a modded-JMP-1 in its high-gain sounds. If you like high-revving/modded Marshall sound, the Piranha is a good lil unit, but I'd say you'd need quite a bit of extra gear with either of these.

You have the 2101, forget the 2120. That's really a step backwards, by everything I've heard talking to 2101 owners. I had the 2120 for a year or two...wished I'd have got a used 2101 instead at the time hehe.

Stu

**charvelguy** · 07-22-2003, 07:07 PM

Re: ok, preamps.

Yeah, the 2101 is a cool preamp.

I wanted to elaborate a little on the ADA. It is a complaint about "feel" with the ADA..altho, after experimenting with tube replacement it helped slightly. I am going to try the soldano mod to my MP-1 in the near future. I think the effects loop is a joke unless it's modded as well.
For right now, I would say that the ADA is more like you playing the sound, than the sound enhancing your playing.. I think that would best describe the "feel" aspect.

I getter better vibe out of the Rocktron.
I also experimented with a few different quality 12ax7's.. Valvo, RCA long plates, Brimar, Philips..etc... different constructions and strengths before deciding on a happy tube.

The Prophesy is a powerful and flexible preamp. Can be had for about 300.00. I seen one go at a Guitar Center clearance for 149.00 Memorial day.

[ July 22, 2003, 07:10 PM: Message edited by: charvelguy ]

**charvelguy** · 07-22-2003, 07:33 PM

Re: ok, preamps.

Oh, on the ADA and I do run the roland outboard parametric AND drive it from the front on occasion with a boost.

I notice you do not mention the Engl.. some people really like their preamps. I believe they're all straight..no effects.

**xxxcreaturexxx** · 07-23-2003, 12:03 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

You should try the ADA MP-2 with a Sonic Maximizer. Inexpensive and great Death Metal sound. If you happen to come across one email me and I will send you a setting for it.

**Gilbert** · 07-23-2003, 02:04 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

Thanks for all the replies/advice guys. I appreciate it.
I've owned a triaxis and wasn't happy with it, and switched back to the 2101. So that narrows it down a tiny bit. As much as i love Mesa ( i own a simul 2:90 and a recto 4x12 with custom 90's) I still dont like their preamps/amps for this style.
Even though price isn't a concern, im pretty interested in a voodu valve. I've read many mixed reviews, but the majority say its great. I would only be using it for a preamp, as i already have a tc g-major and bbe. Is the voodu worth it just for that? Or is there a preamp which is strictly a preamp that would be equivelant in tone.
thnx again

**Gilbert** · 07-23-2003, 02:05 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

If they made an Ampeg vh-140c rackmount I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Anyone familiar with this amp? any preamps similar in tone?

**StuTDavis** · 07-23-2003, 02:19 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

The Voodu has a sound character all its own and, set right, it's got very good sensitive feel to it. They have a certain girth to the sound that's just...different. It's a cool character in itself, but not necessarily desirable for everything or everybody. You'd have to hear/play one to know. They aren't all that expensive for a fairly high-end preamp, and your G-Major's effects will be better quality anyway, don't feel it's a bad deal just to use it for its preamp. Besides, its preamp section has a LOT more than most preamps have to them...with pre and post EQs, the low/high gain tube settings, built-in variac...and the speaker sim, which I think Rocktron did an awesome job on, in the Voodu/Cham/Prophesy units. You can't go wrong with the package, and the price...only thing to worry about is liking the sound. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Stu

**Gilbert** · 07-23-2003, 02:26 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

It's definatly on the top of my list to try out. Right on Stu.

**charvelguy** · 07-23-2003, 10:19 AM

Re: ok, preamps.

If price is no object...and you already have a G major with a BBe. You eliminated a Triaxis.. some guys love the Mesa.... really a matter of a quest.
I'm just tossing options out there for ya..

I would also consider The Rocktron Vendetta VP4 since the Egnater and the Carvin Quad X are being considered. The VP4 isn't cheap..
and I see the Piranha is on your list too which usually is 200.00-300.00 range.

I jammed thru an Ampeg solid state like 12-13 years ago..I'm pretty sure it was a VH series head. I was very suprised to learn it wasn't a tubed amp, but the gain had clearity and definition, it was a nice sounding amp.

I realize you're trying to limit the options.. going thru preamps one by one is time consuming..and there are a ton of processors past and present. As a final note with the tubed ones, you never know if a used one you're trying has a weak tube or set of tubes which may change the overall characteristics of how it responds. If you're really not happy.. try another. Good luck.

[ July 23, 2003, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: charvelguy ]

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