My new amp!!!

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: My new amp!!!

Tubes are overated??

Ugh... Silly digital guys... Maybe when the sampling rate gets to 96 it will sound better, but I can't take them now. They have their good points. But, there is a special things about tuibes they'll never quite nail. If you don't hear it, that just because YOU don't hear it, haha...

I don't need to saturate my power tubes. That's too unpredictable for me. I get my sound from my (tube) preamp and for some reason still require a tube power amps as I've used SS ones, and they don't sound as pleasing.

Basically, DSP does a whole lotta things "OK", and are flexible. My amp does a couple things so stellar, it's worth it.

They definitely don't project the same way a high quality tube unit does in a club. EVEN Michael Romeo admits that. He gets his Vettas for free, and THAT is the reason he uses them on tour. He doesn't record with them just yet. Althouhg IMO they would probably do best in that capacity.

[Hotrod]

Re: My new amp!!!

Well, the SS vs. Tubes debate is still going strong I see. It's getting pretty monotonous and repetetive if you ask me. People prefer what they prefer. I don't think a copy or duplication of the original will ever be "better". I'm not saying SS sucks, in fact quite the opposite. I've heard some great non-tube tones and they're great for possibly recording and quieter applications. I don't agree with the "100 watt tube heads are only for arenas" argument. I've gigged small clubs with a 4x12 and a 100 watt tube head and had what I consider to be great tone. The brands have changed, but that is all. I think each have their place in the music world.
I would love to try a Vetta one of these days. Do I think it'll replace my setup? Probably not. Will it have a place beside it? Possibly, if I really like what I hear.

On a side note..... Congratulations JG on your new amp and as long as you dig what it does, that's all that matters. Can't wait to hear some more clips from it, Aldo. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] J/K I liked your clip BTW.

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

Thanks Hotrod. I didn't mean that you can't use a 100w tube head at small clubs. What I meant was that you can't take advantage of what a 100w tube head has to offer when the loudest you have the volume on is 3. There is not much better than a Marshall Plexi 50w head maxed out or even a Mesa Dual on 6. Most of us rarely get the chance to max out our live gear. Back in the 80's when my band toured opening up for Twisted Sister I was able to totally crank my full stack of red Marshalls previously owned by Buddy Miles. I used the Marshall stack, an MXR Phase 90 and an MXR Distortion +. I used to have my Marshall volume on around 8. Yea... the good old days. Thanks for the compliment... Sincerely, Aldo.... [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[lerxstcat]

Re: My new amp!!!

Originally posted by Cleveland Metal:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> If you are wed to tubes unto death, that's fine. To say you have a better ear than the rest of us (especially Pete)
is a bit arrogant though. It might just
as well be said that the difference is all in your head, than saying others can't hear it. You WANT to hear it, because your wallet and ego are invested in hearing it, so you DO hear a difference.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">First off, I have owned amp modelling stuff and ditched it. It has its points, and is more flexible than my rig, but still sounds somewhat off to me and has digital artifacts. It's getting better everyday though.

Second off, it's not like Pete is some tone god. He makes tube amps, and they're decent sounding. His idea of good tone is far from mine. Shit, Amp demigods Bradshaw and Suhrs idea of tone is different than mine.

And saying "I want to hear it" because I've invested in it is the silliest thing I've heard you say. Look at what a Vetta costs, and tell me that. Duh...

For that matter, "my ego" is whatever sounds good to me, show me any amp that does what I want, DSP or whatever, I'd own it. I don't need VHT or CAE nametags, As a matter of fact, I dislike Bob Bradshaw and wish I didn't like his amps, haha. I don't even need Jackson or ESP nametags on my guitars, shit, my main axe is $215 Charvel. My ego???

I have chased tone for years and this is what "I" like. I've watched and analyzed lotsa pro guitar gods live for 25+ years and found what I like.

I'm quite poor, poverty level actually, and have saved and sacrificed to get what I want. If I though the DSP was was the sound I wanted, I'd certainly own that. Much less to maintain and lighter too!

Hey, Some guys like real butter, some guys like margarine. I like butter. There is a difference. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">John, I have the utmost respect for you and your sensibilities regarding music, but I
felt you were labeling those who'd use modeling amps as inferior to you with the tone of your first post. I can be as sarcastic as the next guy and was going for the same effect I felt coming from you there. I think Pete's response said it well, and kudos to him for not replying as sarcastically as I did, since you took a little shot at him in your reply to me. I'd consider you and he to be equals in knowledge and experience wheras you imply you're superior. I don't know why you think that or feel compelled to say it, but I guess that doesn't matter.

We both need to remember that expressing our opinions on this stuff is one thing, but going on to slag someone with a different view is another. I can be as guilty of that as anyone, but I'm owning up to it to try and change it. How about you, bro?

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

Originally posted by redmanjj:
I play live with a rack system (MP-2, Marshall EL-84), but I record with a POD 2.0. Getting the setup to record with my rack is a pain, and playing live with the POD sounds like a$$.

This seems like a good compromise to me.

How much did you want for the Carvin preamp?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I sold the Quad X, the T-100 and the SKB road case for $650.00 to a guy in Seattle WA.

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

Well, I finally used my Flextone HD head for a jam session with a very loud band. Here is my review for all of you modeling non believers [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

Equipment used:
My guitar
Flextone HD with 2 Randall 4 x 12 cabinet wired in 4ohms per side stereo (the Flextone puts out 150watts per side with this config)
Line 6 Longboard.
Carvin DC400
Other guitar player:
2003 Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifier full stack
2002 Gibson Historic Artist series flametop Les Paul
Noise gate, flanger, chorus, delay, Acoustic simulator, GE-7 EQ and a tuner(all pedals)
Extremely loud double bass playing drummer with a full DW (?) set like Neal Peart plays.
Bass Player used a rack mount Ampeg head (very nice) and a Hartke top with 12's and a bottom with 15's.
PROS:
Could I be heard... YES
Did my leads cut through... YES
How was my tone..... EXCELLENT
Was it nice to have 16 amps and all the tones of clean and dirty patches all programmed in and ready to go... YES
Was it loud enough.... I was playing on 5 and it was ear bleeding loud.
The wah pedal and the tuner on the long board are excellent.
CONS:
There is a slight delay in channel switching if you are switching from 2 different amp models. All of the newer models addressed this problem. It doesn't effect me because my rhythm and lead patches are the same except my lead patch is louder with more midrange and more effects.
It doesn't look as cool as a Mesa.
It doesn't get better as you turn it up like the Mesa. It just gets louder. MUCH LOUDER!!!
I had to tweak the live settings because the effects react differently as the master volume is increased.
Final thoughts.. the other guitar player hated it until we listened to the live recording we made. Now he is looking for either a Vetta 2 or an HD147 to maybe replace his Triple Rectifier and his full board full of pedals. Just like I said earlier, there aren't many clubs we would play at that could handle a Mesa Triple full stack and it just doesn't sound that great until you get on it.

[Dreamland_Rebel]

Re: My new amp!!!

instead of getting a line 6 vetta or hd147
why not get a pod pro and a good tube power amp.

bands lie weezer and Trans Siberian Orchestra use pod pro's direct in to the pa. i still prefer a speaker cab, but hey, they both sound great live.

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

He is a traditional head and cabinet guy. Rack stuff to him should only be in the studio. What it really comes down to is the George Lynch Dokken guitar tone. He has been searching for it forever. Now I have it. He has $6000.00 easy in Mesa equipment yet I have the Lynch tone with my $600.00 used 1st gen Flextone HD head and decent Randall cabinets. I keep telling him that to get the Lynch tone he needs either a modded Marshall or a Soldano but he insists on Mesa because he has been playing them since he bought his first Dual the 1st year they came out. We are going to get an XT for the studio though. I already have a Peavey Sixty/Sixty power amp and an entire rack of effects.

[Twisteramps]

Re: My new amp!!!

Originally posted by Dreamland_Rebel:
instead of getting a line 6 vetta or hd147
why not get a pod pro and a good tube power amp.

bands lie weezer and Trans Siberian Orchestra use pod pro's direct in to the pa. i still prefer a speaker cab, but hey, they both sound great live.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Vetta IIs and HD147s sound and respond like a 'real' amp - moreso than a Pod or XT and a power amp. I've been there, done that with both types of rigs. I personally prefer a Vetta II setup over *any* tube power amp and a Pod.

Pete

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

I agree with Pete 100%. The Vetta 2 is the answer for a guitar players tone in most of the instances. It is absolutely my next purchase. I think it sounds even better than the amps it models and with that footboard there is literally nothing you can't do in a live application. Just don't knock it until you try it. You will be very surprised.

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

Here is the latest update regarding my 1st generation Line 6 Flextone HD after owning it now for around 1 month.

I have rehearsed with a loud band a few times. I have recorded with it a few times. I use it when I am giving guitar lessons 5 times per week.
This head reacts very different to certain cabinets. IMHO, it sounds the best with 2 x 12 cabinets run in stereo. What a fantastic amp. I have it set up currently with 20 presets that cover everything I play from The Beatles to Metallica to Priest to Disturbed. I just can't get over how great it sounds and how friggin loud it is. Between this amp and my Crate DXJ112 modeling amp that I modded to handle external cabinets I have it all covered. Modeling is just too kick ass. [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Sinistas]

Re: My new amp!!!

Maybe I'm on crack, but it really seems like my Spider II 212 *does* sound better when turned up...It gets less muddy and just sounds better overall.

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

Everybody says that the new Line 6 stuff gets even better sounding louder. They certainly have their shit together lately at Line 6. They constantly make improvements to an already great product.

[thenine]

Re: My new amp!!!

Well, I fall clearly on the tube side of this debate. A real tube amp just sounds like a "rock show" to me. Modelling amps sound like recorded versions of guitar sounds to me and do not seem like a real "rock show" when you hear them live at volume. That being said, one thing that is not often mentioned is resale value. Mofo tube amps tend to hold their value much better. I'm talking about JCM 800's, SLO's, XTC's and the like. The Line6 stuff is like buying a computer. A couple years down the road when they stop supporting it, it's worth very little. Just ask my Bro who bought an Axsys 212 and floorboard for about $1200, now it's worth maybe $500. Just something to think about for some of you.


JOHN

[jgcable]

Re: My new amp!!!

Originally posted by thenine:
Well, I fall clearly on the tube side of this debate. A real tube amp just sounds like a "rock show" to me. Modelling amps sound like recorded versions of guitar sounds to me and do not seem like a real "rock show" when you hear them live at volume. That being said, one thing that is not often mentioned is resale value. Mofo tube amps tend to hold their value much better. I'm talking about JCM 800's, SLO's, XTC's and the like. The Line6 stuff is like buying a computer. A couple years down the road when they stop supporting it, it's worth very little. Just ask my Bro who bought an Axsys 212 and floorboard for about $1200, now it's worth maybe $500. Just something to think about for some of you.


JOHN

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">That is entirely not true. Tube amps tank in value just as fast as modeling amps. I could pick up a 5150 head any day of the week for $500.00 Thats 1/2 what it cost new. My buddy just picked up a mint new Triple Rectifier for 1/2 what it would cost new. Most Marshalls are a dime a dozen unless you are talking about the vintage models or the modded ones. Even the infamous Soldano SLO100 sells for much less than what it costs new. I could go on and on and on and on.!! [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] Now to respond to your statement about modeling amps sounding like a recorded version of a real amp. Thanks for the compliment. My Flextone HD sounds EXACTLY like the Lynch tone in Under Lock and Key. It also nails the Metallica tone from Master of Puppets, it sounds identical to the SRV Fender tone, it nails most of the Nu-Metal tones and it records even better than it sounds live. Oh yea, it is 300 watts. 150 watts per side. It can handle up to 8 4 x 12 cabinets in stereo. I run 2 4 x 12 cabinets with it and it is so powerful and loud that I could never imagine needing more volume and presence anywhere I have ever played and it has line compensated outs to go to the board for larger venues. The largest clubs I usually play are 500+ people tops. Usually they are around 300 people. I almost forgot.... built in wah pedal (outstanding),built in volume pedal, 100's of presets, a fantastic noise gate, a fantastic tuner and more effects than I know what to do with. I actually think that the Vetta 2 and the HD147 sound more like the real amps they are modeling than the real things. I have been playing pro for over 28 years and have pretty much done,owned and heard it all.