Recommend me a microphone.

[Number Of The Priest]

I'd really like a nice recording microphone for home use and the only microphone brand I know of is Shure since I've used their mics for recording in the studio before. I was looking at the KSM27 since it looks like it would suit my needs for vocal/guitar/bass recording, but it seems rather pricey:

http://www.shure.com/microphones/models/ksm27.asp

Is there any versatile microphone out there but not so expensive? Recommend me one that's versatile and won't thin out my wallet so much.

My mixer provides phantom power, so I think I'm covered there. What else would I need to start using this thing? It doesn't seem as easy to use as your basic desktop computer microphone, and I don't want to have to make several trips to the music store to get more stuff that I'd need. If I'm jamming with friends, what else would I need to be able to use it for vocals (other than the mic stand)?

[Lev]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

whats your price range? For guitar/bass recording I'd go with a dynamic mic and for vocals a condensor mic. Instead of getting a KSM27 for $575, I'd get a SM57 for guitars/bass and a condensor mic such as a Neumann (lots of good models to choose from). To be honest, at musicians friend there's a lot of new mic's being made in china that sound almost as good as $2000 mics, and quality is really good too. Those aren't my words either, top producers are recommending them. If I was back in boston I could help you out a lot more since all my notes are there (notes on mic uses, prices, quality, and everything else), but I won't be for another couple of weeks. But what I'm saying is, you'd be better off getting an SM57 for like $70 (best mic for guitar pretty much), and then with the $500 you have left over you can get a good mic for vocals.

[Infernal Death]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

I think that Lev pretty much nailed it with saying you should buy 2 mics, one for each application.
The Shure SM57 is very hard to beat for guitar recording, especially considered it's low price.
Maybe you can score a used Sennheiser 421 which is also held in quite high regard for recording guitar (there are really quite some people out there who prefer it way over the quite mid-rangey sounding SM 57 for recording heavy guitars)
Also you can buy one of each and use them together on one cab. I have seen some pics of recordings where they have sticked a SM 57 on one speaker and one or two Sennheiser 421 on other speakers.

Here is a example of the use of two 421's found on the homepage of the death metal band Aborted (and they have a killer heavy sound on the record they used this amp setup (that's Goremaggedon))


I don't agree with Lev's suggestions of Neumann mics. Yes they are very good and if you are able to buy one it's a good choice. But if you think that $600 are too much for a mic then you don't have any chances of buying a Neumann. A Neumann suitable for vocal recording easily can set you back $1K and also spending over $2.5k isn't impossible.

I can't talk from own experience but Studio Projects mics are held in high regard concerning cheap condenser mics. The B1 form SP costs around $80 and the C1 is around $200 ( I plan on buying a B1 for guitar recording if i ever get around to save some money). Those are among the cheap and good chinese mics that Lev talked about.
Yes there are many voices out there that say that those cheap chinese condenser mics are equal to expensive neumann's but i don't believe that. It's mainly a internet hype (there is also a article of some well known engineers talking about the mackie preamps in their mixing consoles whipping the floor with neve and telefunken preamps. At the end it was a press release from Mackie and hyped their own products.) . The cheap mics are probably way more worth what they cost though (especially put against one of those "good brand" companys like Neumann).
And if you are not into serious recording and building up a pro facility which costs multiple $10000's there isn't a big point in buying only neumanns.

So the point is i would recommend you to buy a Shure SM 57 and a SP C1 (or B1). Will cost you around $300 and should deliver nice results. If you have more channels of mic preamps you can also use the C1 on the guitar cab with a little space between the mic and cab for capturing some of the room sound.

Finally my last words are that you should also consider that your complete recording chain is important. Buying a super good and expensive mic isn't good if your preamps and converters are very bad. As always the saying "the chain is as strong as the weakest link" is the truth.
So maybe you should consider buying a nice preamp with the money you save.

Hope this helps a bit.

Flo

[Infernal Death]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Almost forgot your last part of the question.
You just need a normal mic cable (XLR connectors) for the mic. The only thing which comes to my mind that is something special you need for using mics is the special power supply for tube mics (since tubes love high voltages which soundcards and mixers aren't able to deliver). But normally all tube mics come with these power supplies.

I don't really recommend using a condenser mic in a band/jam application. Condenser mics almost always get used in recording application because they are so sensitive. In a band/jam situation they will pick up the guitars, bass and drums. But the Shure SM 57 is also suitable for using as a vocal mic (mainly in live application). You don't get such a detailed and strong signal as you would get from a condenser but that's ok for a jam session. After all the Shure SM 57 pretty much is the same as the SM 58 which is THE live vocal mic.
So the SM 57/SP C1 pair should also cover your live needs.
You don't need anything special, just the mic, cable, stand, a preamp and some sort of pa monitors and a poweramp for your voice. That should be all.

Flo

[Lev]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

yeah forget about Neumann's, I didn't realize they were that expensive, thought they were cheaper for some reason. Flo's advice is great, and he's experienced, you can't go with his recommendations.

Flo, have you heard of or tried any of those new mic's that are being made in china? They're copies of neumann's, seinheissers, etc. Apparently they sound great, quality is decent, and they only cost a few hundred bucks. Just wondering [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Infernal Death]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Hey Lev

Like i said in the post above i don't have any own experience with those Studio Project mics but heard really good things about them in different forums. As for other cheap chinese mics. I heard briefly some in a studio from a friend and thought they were quite good (can't remember what they were).
Problem is that you should have a Neumann on side for a comparison and take your time while listening (decent speaker monitors help here).
So i can't comment on them compared to a Neumann. But those were a fine choice for homerecording and semi-professional use.
I also don't have a decent recording gear store near me to try out anything.

From what i get some chinese companies (or better said companies that offer chinese mics) got much better over the last years. There are so many people saying good things about Studio projects so there must be some truth. And now it seams that those comments are quite down to earth. There was a time when some people mention that the C1 is better than a Neumann U87. Something like this always makes me sceptical. After all a U87 costs over $2000.
I would buy a C1 but i don't need a vocal mic (since i don't sing and don't plan to [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img] ) and the B1 is supposed to be better sounding for guitar applications.
Oh and since some time Studio Projects mics are available for decent prices here in germany. Before that i would have needed to order one from the usa and that would kinda ruin the cheap price.

Well the next thing i need to buy are the missing parts for my DIY recording gear. After that the B1 is on order.

My final thought about this is that $100-$200 isn't that much money for a mic. If it really isn't good than you can always sell it on ebay and can hope to get the bigger part of money back (or you try to score a used one on ebay and afterwards sell it for the same money if you aren't satisfied). So it's not really a risk. Would be a other thing when buying a Brauner mic for $5k.

Flo

[Hotrod]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Very good advice so far. [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]
My 2 cents.....
I use a Shure SM57 for my cabinet and an SM58 for vocals. Shouldn't set you back too far for price and for the money, that's a hard combination to beat. Both are industry workhorses and stand up to a lot of use and abuse.

Good luck. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Infernal Death]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Well yeah both SM 57 and SM 58 are truly workhorses and deliver the goods on thousands of stages and in front of thousands of guitar amps.
But honestly i wouldn't buy both. After all they are really both the same, just a different grill.
And if it's for a true recording application i definitely would buy a condenser mic since it's much more sensitive. A dynamic mic is good in front of guitar amp or inside a bass drum.
But for a nice and detailed vocal sound a condenser is better. It's just that condensers pick up too much what is going around the singer so they are a big NO for live application.
But for the occational band jam the SM 57 is really enough. And it's better to buy two different mics than buying to quite identical.

Flo

[Hotrod]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Similar, yes. Identical just with different grills, no. I've tried using the 57 for vocals in a pinch and it does work, but sounds very different. Went back to the 58 and had to adjust everything again, and again, very different, but more suited to the vocal range, I guess. Never tried the 58 as an instrument mic though. Try several things out if you can though. Everybody's ears and tastes are very different. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Wow, thanks so much for the informative responses! [img]graemlins/toast.gif[/img]

I'll most likely be buying the SM57 and SM58 since I know for sure that my local music stores stock Shure microphones, but those are both dynamic performance microphones and you recommended condenser microphones for recording purposes.

As for my price range, the price Lev said for the SM57 in his first reply ($70) is perfect. I'm looking to spend no more than maybe $300 American for BOTH microphones.

Okay, so I need preamps and poweramps and crap? How much are those going to cost? Educate me! [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img] Damn, I know nothing about microphones... I felt this exact way when I was starting to learn everything about guitars equipment. [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] I guess the mics come with power supplies, but I'd need to still get amps, some stands, and cables (not sure what XLR connectors are... I'm such a newbie [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] ).

[Hotrod]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

For the Shures, you'll need an amp and a mixer. I thought in one of your posts, you said you had a mixer, if it's a powered mixer, you're in business already, if not, then you'll need some type of amplification. Lots of different ways to go about that. A lot of people, use powered loudspeakers with their mixer, like JBL's or the like. My last mixer was a Crate powered mixer, so all I needed was the speakers, but all the amplification was done in the mixer itself. There are some cheap all-in-one type units (like the Fender passport) or you can go all the way up to several thousand dollars or anywhere in between. Again, it depends on what you want to do, what you already have and the best way to get it all accomplished.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Not sure if "powered mixer" means a mixer with a Phantom Power, but I believe my mixer does provide Phantom Power. I'm using the rest of my Christmas vacation to learn about how to use my mixer because I honestly don't know anything about it.

This is my mixer... Behringer Eurorack Model MX802A:

http://www.behringer.com/02_products...X802A&lang=eng

I'm pretty newbie-ish... I thirst for more knowledge... tell me more, O Wise JCFers. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[KYJoe]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

If you want to record decent vocals at home you'll need a condenser mic, they're also good for acoustic guitars and you'll have a 2nd mic for your guitar cabinet (put it about 4' away). If you don't buy one now you'll be buying one later.

The SM57 & 58 are basically the same mic. I agree with the other guys about micing your cabinet with a SM57, it's what I use and it's still industry standard in most studios. New they're about $120, but you can bet a used one anywhere from $50 to $100 if you look. They're very durable and a used one will work just as good.

For a condenser, I'd suggest either a Studio Projects C1, Marshall MXL V67G, Audio Technica, or an AKG for a new condenser. They're all decent and can be had from $100 to $200. If you can find a higher end condenser used that's in good shape buy that instead.

This way you provide yourself with 2 different options as far as mics go. Some things will sound better with one and some with the other, instead of both mics basically sounding the same. Almost all the vocals you hear on commerically produced CDs came from a condenser mic. It does make a difference.

Good luck,
Joe

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

So perhaps you recommend the Shure SM57 (dynamic) for amp recording, and the Studio Projects C1 (condenser) for vocals and acoustic guitar?

[Infernal Death]

Re: Recommend me a microphone.

Originally posted by Number Of The Priest:
So perhaps you recommend the Shure SM57 (dynamic) for amp recording, and the Studio Projects C1 (condenser) for vocals and acoustic guitar?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep that's what i also recommended in my first post. With recording gear it's really helpful to have "one from everything". No matter how good gear is there there are always application where it works better and worser.
Like i said for the occasional jam session the SM 57 should be good enough for your vocals. And for recording the condenser is much better. Also like Joe mentioned you can use it for acoustic guitar or together with your dynamic mic on your cab for capturing more roomsound.

Your mixer is ok. Well Behringer isn't known for quality but it's really ok for a start and they are cheap. No your behringer isn't a powered mixer. Phantom power has nothing to do with the term "powered mixer" (although most of them of course also have phantom power). A powered mixer is a mixing console which has a power amp built in. So it delivers the main output signals with a specific wattage to drive some speaker cabs.
Well i don't know if it's clear to you. But the powered mixer/poweramp and speaker solution only applies to using the mic for a live performace (gig/jam). If you do recording (i guess it will be computer recording) a preamp (which is built in your mixer) is enough. The soundcard of your computer (or every analog in to a recorder) needs a line level signal. That's the task of a mic preamp,to convert the very low output signal of a mic to line level. Never plug in a line level in to a powered level out.
So if your primary goal is to get set for recording don't worry about poweramps and powered mixers.

So if you want to start recording get both mics, two cables (since your mixer has more than two channels you are able to use both mics at the same time) and two mic stands (get some decent ones, crap mic stands aren't any fun to work with)and you are ready to go. Oh and don't forget a cable from your mixer to your soundcard (or whatever you want to use for recording).
As for two signals it depends on your soundcard. If you have a normal soundblaster card i can't record two signals at once. So you have to mix them together on your mixer. If you have a recording soundcard most of them can record 2 and more tracks at once and you can go with both signals into the computer and doing some eq and other effects on each of both signals.
Too bad i just looked at the specs of your mixer and it seems that it doesn't have direct out's. It's not really necessary but going out from direct out's you can bypass your mixers eq which isn't a bad thing with behringer mixers [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

@Hotrod
Yes both mics just have a different grill but that's enough to change the sound quite a bit. I never said they sounded the same. The point is just that it's always better to buy two different mics (of course an exception is if you really only work live where the SM 57 for guitar and SM 58 for vocals are the best choice on a budget).

Flo