Not enough gain

[Matt Crooks]

Several forum members have written that they didn't like the Mesa recto series because it didn't have enough gain. I personally have never been able to get the gain much past 7 and have it be useable, and most of the time it's down around 6. Can someone help me out and explain what people mean when they say that the rectos don't have enough gain?

Thanks

[Soloist1]

Re: Not enough gain

They probably have a different opinion of what gain is. I personally feel an amps gain should be measured against products of similar tone. Mesa very obviously has it's own tone as does Soldano. Both offer plenty of gain in my opinion. The Mesa just gives you that tightly distorted low end tone while the Soldano seems more like a brighter growl type tone. I think they are trying to squeeze a tone out of an amp that doesn't necessarily have what they want and just always default to saying it lacks the gain.

[Soloist1]

Re: Not enough gain

Also here is another scenario. When I really blew as a guitar player, as opposed to slightly blowing like now, I used to dime the gain control and still not get the sounds I was looking for. Blaming it on gain of course. Adding tons of effects like delay, compression and sustain was my solution then. Actually learning how to get some good harmonics and develop a proper playing technique is the real solution. That could be another reason. Now I usually run the gain adjustment on most amps right up around 12 to 2 o'clock on the dial. And I prefer amps that are only effected slighty, if at all. Saying a recto doesn't have gain is pretty hard to imagine.

[Cleveland Metal]

Re: Not enough gain

Well, figure many guys are newer players.

The first amp they hear their misc guitar icons using is qiute often the MESA in newer music at least.

They have previously been using stompbox distortion. Which is very pronounced distortion.

They get or try a MESA, they find it isn't the quite same as their stompboxes. This is especially true on a casual examination of a MESA which in my opinion takes some tweaking to get a good useable distortion and tone.

They don't really crunch with edge out of the box without tweaking. I have personally found them to be spongy, flubby and lacking definition. I've heard that loose spongy tone in recordings, and then I've also heard some tasty, brutal tones out of them too.

I feel you would have to spend a bit of time to eek that sound out of the average recto. I know it took me a LONG (several months) time to get my sound out of my CAE, it was a dog out of the box, but I HAD to make that damn thing work. I'll figure although I've had the MESA's, I just didn't give them enough tweaking time.

Sound reasonable?

[toejam]

Re: Not enough gain

I could also never figure out why some people say certain amps can't get enough gain. What Chris and John said definitely makes sense. I used to be a gain freak and would crank my old Marshall Valvestate's gain and use an X2N pickup! The X2N has so much gain that even turning the amp's control down four or five notches really didn't change much!! [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Nowadays I usually use pickups that aren't so hot and I can still turn the gain down a little and have a great sound with enough distortion. I also now have a Mesa F-30 and only have the gain at about 2 or 3 o'clock and find it's pretty much enough for the heaviest music and gets close to a Recto (not as brutal and definitely voiced different) when it's dimed.

If someone really needs more gain, then they need an overdrive pedal like an Ibanez Tube Screamer, DOD Juice Box or something else that is designed to be put in front of an already distorted amp to push it even more over the top.

[markD]

Re: Not enough gain

I hear you Matt. Mesa Rectos not having enough gain?! Come on, to me anything past 5-6 is way too much. I find the Mark IV gives me the best gain...it's the only Boogie I still have, but it took a month to tweak my tone. Even then if someone breathes on a knob to heavily my sound is ruined!! At least rectifiers are a little easier to dial. In fact, I'm really jonesing for a Road King, but with all my Riveras and such I could not justify one to the wife!!

[zeegler]

Re: Not enough gain

I agree that gain is overrated. People think you need a ton of gain to sound heavy, when in reality it just takes away all your definition and turns everything into a sludgy mess. Not to mention the fact that it makes feedback really hard to control. I usually have my gain at 1 or 2 oclock and that's plenty.

[jgcable]

Re: Not enough gain

Here is what I think in very simple terms and after owning a single, double and triple recto.
The rectifiers don't have solo gain. I have always found it very difficult to play solos through a Mesa Rectifier unless I had some sort of outboard processing. They just don't have enough sustain type gain that is needed for solos IMHO!!! My Carvin Quad X had tons of it. I could get violin type sustain on channel 4 with the gain on 6. Soldano's and 5150's too have tons of useable sustain type gain. The Mesa gain is great for chords but crappy for solo's. Thats my .02 anyway.

[jgcable]

Re: Not enough gain

Originally posted by zeegler:
I agree that gain is overrated. People think you need a ton of gain to sound heavy, when in reality it just takes away all your definition and turns everything into a sludgy mess. Not to mention the fact that it makes feedback really hard to control. I usually have my gain at 1 or 2 oclock and that's plenty.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can't possibly be playing metal with your gain on 1 or 2. Classic rock maybe, but not metal. If so, what kind of amp are you using that gives you killer heavy metal gain on 1 or 2??

[toejam]

Re: Not enough gain

Originally posted by jgcable:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by zeegler:
I agree that gain is overrated. People think you need a ton of gain to sound heavy, when in reality it just takes away all your definition and turns everything into a sludgy mess. Not to mention the fact that it makes feedback really hard to control. I usually have my gain at 1 or 2 oclock and that's plenty.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">You can't possibly be playing metal with your gain on 1 or 2. Classic rock maybe, but not metal. If so, what kind of amp are you using that gives you killer heavy metal gain on 1 or 2?? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He said 1 or 2 o'clock... as if you're looking at a clock with 12 o'clock position being straight up. [img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img]
I keep the gain on my Mesa at 2 or 3 o'clock.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Not enough gain

I had the feeling that it was new-to-guitar kids thinking gain equates to "heaviness". In my opinion, definitely close attention paid to EQ sculpting leads to fatness, warmth, sustain, and richness in tone, at least in my case.

[slayer]

Re: Not enough gain

Lack of Gain is the reason I am throwing my peice of shit VHT Pittbull CLX-100 over a bridge [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img] What were they thinking when they made these overpriced peices of shit [img]images/icons/shocked.gif[/img] Oh well, I am now going to buy a Mesa triple Rectifer amp, maybe then I can get that over the top gain that the VHT lacks, what a peice of crap [img]images/icons/mad.gif[/img] Anybody else feel the same way [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] Jack.

[toejam]

Re: Not enough gain

LMAO @ Jack! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Not enough gain

Pittbull.....Pitbull [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[Soloist1]

Re: Not enough gain

There's a few good prime examples of what I'm talking about. They all have gain. What you guys are looking for is a different tone. A Mesa has Mesa tone a Bogner has Bogner tone and a Soldano has Soldano tone. If you dime the gain on any of them you start sounding flabby. My sp77 gets flabby pretty easily once past 2 o'clock. I run it at 12 now and kick the Jackson preamp on that my Dinky has and it gives me a more useable boost. I would think you could do the same with a pedal in front and the right settings also. I also have a Rocktron ProQ guitar enhancer that manages to change the tone pretty well. I can get a more fizzy tight low end Mesa type tone with the right settings. Still not exact though.