Not enough gain

[Venomboy]

Re: Not enough gain

jcgable...you hit it right on the head about the Recto's lacking solo gain. I could get a good rhtym sound, but no matter what guitar I played with, my leads were very thin with no sustain. My Peavey SS combo has more sustain. My VHT combo has less gain than the Recto but more sustain.

[Twisteramps]

Re: Not enough gain

Remember too how loud people are playing their amps... if you crank a JCM800 loud enough, STOCK there is plenty of gain to solo with. If you play one at bedroom volumes, no way.

I never cracked the preamp gain past noon on my dual recto (reverse chassis) head, or my single recto and it had plenty of gain for solos right out of the box for me. However, there was a guy on here that ran a distortion or an overdrive box into the front end of a VHT for MORE gain... different strokes for different folks. I'd wager most of the 'more gain' people aren't necessarily new players, they just don't crank the amps up enough to get mondo sustain and compression.

Pete

[slayer]

Re: Not enough gain

Man, I don`t know what model of VHT you have VB, but mine has extremely high searing gain. Do you have the 1x12 50 combo or? Just curious [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] Jack.

[zeegler]

Re: Not enough gain

Originally posted by jgcable:
You can't possibly be playing metal with your gain on 1 or 2. Classic rock maybe, but not metal. If so, what kind of amp are you using that gives you killer heavy metal gain on 1 or 2??

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Lol, what Toejam said. I have a Blue Voodoo, and yeah, for the most part I play metal. Don't get me wrong, I'm talking about my rhythm sound here. I do prefer the gain a little higher for soloing (which I don't do a whole lot of). I was one of those guys that always wanted more gain. I bought different pedals and pre-amps, and then my buddy bought a 5150. That thing sounds like absolute shit if you crank the gain all the way up. The Blue Voodoo has a little less than the 5150, but still more than enough.

Over the years, I suppose as my playing improved, I've come to realize that technique accounts for more than just how many notes you can play. Far too many guitar players use excessive gain to make up for lack of playing ability. It's sort of like using a wah-wah to make up for lack of soloing ability.

Two thing I wish I knew 15 years ago:

1 - Midrange is GOOD!!! Don't be afraid of it.

2 - There is such a thing as too much gain. Don't become dependant on it.

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: Not enough gain

Well I know one thing...I love the Rectifier sound and I can't wait to get one of my own. I agree with what John said first...mainly because the same thing happened to me when I used a tube amp(5150 combo) at a gig for the first time. Now that I look back on it, I probably should've tried to mess around with it a bit more instead of just writing it off immediately. But, live and learn...

[pro-fusion]

Re: Not enough gain

I think it's also a factor of playing by yourself (with yourself???) versus playing in a band or on a recording. Diming the gain on your 5150 or Recto makes your sound much 'bigger' and fills more space when you are playing alone in your bedroom, but it sounds like crap in the context of a full band or recording.

If you were to isolate guitar tracks in recordings by seemingly really high-gain guys like Alexi Laiho, the Amott Bros. or Tony Iommi, you'd find that there isn't as much gain as you think, even on the lead parts. The guitar multi-tracking, drums and bass fill in a lot of the sound, which tricks you into thinking the guitar sound is a lot fuller and more distorted than it really it. As someone else said, proper EQing also has a lot to do with it.

That said, I probably use way too much gain for my own good...

[Tekky]

Re: Not enough gain

Originally posted by Matt Crooks:
Several forum members have written that they didn't like the Mesa recto series because it didn't have enough gain. I personally have never been able to get the gain much past 7 and have it be useable, and most of the time it's down around 6. Can someone help me out and explain what people mean when they say that the rectos don't have enough gain?

Thanks

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Because their amps don't go up to 11. [img]graemlins/images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

[craggin]

Re: Not enough gain

Mesa's not having enough gain...yikes!!!

I agree with all you guys, typically Mesa's have to be tweaked a fair amount to get good, usable gain. IMHO, the gain structure is very compressed, which lends itself to a thin solo tone, but a great tight rythym tone. I've got a Voodoo modded Recto that is amazing. (I play in an old school metal band.) I had Trace and Anthony "decompress" the gain and expand the mids...now it is amazing.

[Number Of The Priest]

Re: Not enough gain

I totally agree with Zeegler. More and more, I've come to realize that I love how midrange cuts through the mix, especially with your soloing tone. But then again, I've really come to love my Marshall mid-high gain crunch tone, so I'm obviously rather biased. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[jgcable]

Re: Not enough gain

I agree about the gain thing. Lots of players use much less than you would think for chords but also keep in mind that for solo's they use mucho outboard gear and in the studio they use completely different amps. I like my chords to have the same gain features that my solo's have. The only difference for me between the 2 is that I use more delay for my solo's, a larger reverb and of course more volume. I also boost the mids a bit. I prefer less gain for chords but I have to have my "perfect" gain for my solo's. That usually involves outboard processing. That is why I use a Flextone HD full stack.

[Venomboy]

Re: Not enough gain

My VHT is the 50 Two/Twelve, which is basically a combo version of the ST series. Less gain than the CL, CLX, and UL series.