UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

[JiMoSiTY]

OK Guys, I have a unique situation that I'm hoping you guys might be able to help me with.

I've got 2 preamps and would like to use both without running out of one and into the other.
I do have a G-Major in the mix and it does some switching, so maybe that'll work for me..?

What I have is a Bogner Triple Giant and an Engl 520.
They can both receive MIDI changes, so maybe that will help, but they both have three channels and have Midi channels 0, 1, 2 for switching channels.

Should I run my guitar into my G-Major and have that do the switching (with my FCB1010 foot controller, which now that I think about it, has some on/off external switching capabilities I believe...) between the two preamps, if so, how should I do it?


I wouldn't be against a midi switcher if that's the right route to go...but I know nothing about them.
Actually, I have a third preamp that I'd love to use as well and if I put that into the mix, maybe I'll HAVE to have a switcher then...but at this point, the two preamps would really be great.

So: to summarize, here's my rig:

Bogner Triple Giant
Engl 520
G-Major
Boogie 50/50 Power Amp

If anybody has suggestions on how to use all six channels of these two preamps, they'd be greatly appreciated!

[Soloist1]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

So basically you want to switch the input of the guitar to one preamp and use that preamp's output right? Not run both at the same time in stereo?

[Matt Crooks]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

It's not cheap but a ground control / gcx combo would work.

You'd plug into the GCX, and then have each preamp in a loop, as well as the effects. The effects would be the last loop. You would set it up so that only one preamp loop was on at any time, and the effects were always on.

[Soloist1]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Jim go to http://www.axess-electronics.com and either email or call Mario and explain what you want to do. He is a great guy and will hook up your system exactly the way you want. Like Matt said what you want to do isn't cheap. There are a few different products that can do it. Rocktron, the GCX and ground control unit, CAE and axess electronics all make units that can switch individual rack units on and off via a MIDI controller. Multiple preamp scenarios are a bit more difficult. I had an old Rocktron RSB that allowed me to switch between two preamps. It's a cabling nightmare. lol But doable. Mario at axess has a new switcher that looks pretty damn nice. You'd have to call him and ask about it's capabilities though. Whatever you do don't run one preamp into the other. That would be bad. And the G-Major won't allow you to switch between the preamps. It pretty much is just good for switching channels of a 2 channel amp and things of that nature.

[Soloist1]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Those things are expensive but they will do all. They are a ***** to program generally also. I've ventured into that realm and quickly left. It was way more than I needed. What your talking about are setups that most of the top pros use. For the most part they are all pre programmed for them and all they have to do is go to their patch from the pedalboard. Bob Bradshaw of CAE pretty much started all these types of setups. I wouldn't recommend even buying his new gear. They take forever to build the stuff and have a pros only attitude in my opinion. I doubt the Peavey or the Rockman are going to be able to do what you want efectively and sound good. Basically you have to get a unit that will split your guitar input into 2 or more signals and send it to the preamps. From there the unit will need to select which preamp and which channel of that preamp you want to use per MIDI patch. So you need a unit like that to switch the preamp outputs in and out. One of the biggest problems with setups like this is grounding issues. You also have a loss of signal through all those loops. If your going to do it and do it so it sounds good your going to have to shell out a shit load of dough. To me it wasn't worth it. I used an old Rocktron RSB 18. That was like 600 bucks. It was out of date and sounded kind of crappy though. You may be able to do it with a Rocktron Patchmate but it would be two preamps only if doable at all. Like I said call Mario. He may have a cheaper solution than the RX1 rack mounted unit. The guy really knows his shit when it comes to rigs like that.

[Soloist1]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Here's a patchmate. It's a cheap solution that could work with two preamps. It will probably sound like ass though. I heard they aren't any better than the old RSB I had and possibly worse.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...category=23790

[Soloist1]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

A better route would be to get a axess electronics BS2 to split your guitars signal without causing grounding issues then get a axess electronics GRX4. The GRX4 looks like it can take two inputs. One from one preamp out and one from the other preamp out and switch between the two. Then you can switch whatever patches you want through one MIDI controller. That is a solution that would run under 400 not including foot pedal. You can pretty much use any MIDI pedalboard you want with those though.

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Buy an a/b box, footswitches for both preamps, a MIDI controller for the effects unit, and learn to dance!

[Soloist1]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

An A/B box? Where are you going to put that Ethan? Your gonna have to switch the output of the two preamps to the G-Major. What about splitting the input to preamp inputs? And his preamps use MIDI to change channels. You start adding all that stuff and it starts getting noisy if the grounding is f'ed up.

[Boxcar Willie 84]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Twas only a joke...I'll be quiet now...

[JiMoSiTY]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Yeah, I don't want to run both at the same time, I want to be able to use my midi controller to switch my patches (I'm assuming with a midi switcher) and have the patches determine which of the multiple preamps to be using, the g-major should be global in the setup so that either of the preamps can use it.

The couple things you guys mentioned looked pretty damn expensive.
What about the Peavey MidiPro or the Rockman Midi Octopus?

[rstites]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Originally posted by JiMoSiTY:
Yeah, I don't want to run both at the same time, I want to be able to use my midi controller to switch my patches (I'm assuming with a midi switcher) and have the patches determine which of the multiple preamps to be using, the g-major should be global in the setup so that either of the preamps can use it.

The couple things you guys mentioned looked pretty damn expensive.
What about the Peavey MidiPro or the Rockman Midi Octopus?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I'm not familiar with the MidiPro. The Midi Octopus will not do what you want to do. It only acts as a remote switcher. You need something that provides a set of loops. The Axess Electronics GRX4 + a midi controller is the cheapest route I can think of that's really designed for this.

If you want to go real cheap and use lots of long cables, you can use two A/B pedals. Put one before the preamps and the other after and stomp them in unison. It will actually work, though probably not very well. [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

[JiMoSiTY]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

If the Axess GXR4 will do it, that's not too expensive, I thought the Axess piece I would need was the $1000 rackmount switcher and that's a little too much cash.
I have a Behringer FCB1010 midi controller, so that should work with the GXR4.
It says they need a power supply like those from Boss but it doesn't come with one, that seems kinda lame considering the cost of the unit and that they seem to have their act together pretty well in all other aspects... weird.

Thanks for the info on the Octopus not being able to do the job, I'd still like to know about the Peavey MidiPro purely because it's rackmountable.

[rstites]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

Originally posted by JiMoSiTY:
If the Axess GXR4 will do it, that's not too expensive, I thought the Axess piece I would need was the $1000 rackmount switcher and that's a little too much cash.
I have a Behringer FCB1010 midi controller, so that should work with the GXR4.
It says they need a power supply like those from Boss but it doesn't come with one, that seems kinda lame considering the cost of the unit and that they seem to have their act together pretty well in all other aspects... weird.

Thanks for the info on the Octopus not being able to do the job, I'd still like to know about the Peavey MidiPro purely because it's rackmountable.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think he leaves out the power supply with the GRX4 since so many people will be using it with pedals and something like the Voodoo Labs power supply, which will handle the GRX4 just fine. Btw, if you buy a used one, make sure that it responds to Program Changes. The early ones require a separate Command Change per loop (ie. you need four of them available for each patch) and the FCB1010 only provides two CC's per patch. It can handle the Program Changes just fine. You can guess how I found this out! [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I wouldn't consider the GCX or Patchmate to be inexpensive. Plus, both are designed to work with their own dedicated midi-controller, so you're almost forced to by either the Ground Control or Midi-mate to go with them. (They're supposed to work with any standard midi-controller, but it's like pulling teeth.) Also, they're both complete overkill for just switching between a couple of preamps.

I'm curious about the Peavy unit too. I'm not familiar with it. Rolls makes something that's very inexpensive too, but I've heard that it's not transparent at all...and Rolls reliability scares me.

[Soloist1]

Re: UNIQUE RACK SETUP - Help!

I wouldn't consider the GCX or Patchmate to be inexpensive.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well what's a less expensive single rack mount unit that performs those functions? They are around 300 to 400 on eBay. Can't say I have seen much cheaper that can do what is being asked.