push the front of an analogue amp modller?

[Chuckracer]

I have a feeling you're going to be stunned and amazed.

[jgcable]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

You wrote "Still doesn't sound very good... A little more gain but not much difference... But then I am using an acoustic electric with a piezo pickup... And maybe a real, good overdrive pedal instead of zoom would sound good?"

You have to be kidding bro. Didn't you post the thread about being better than Petrucci? This place is getting pretty weird. BTW... Piezo's are not high gain pickups. They are not even designed for regular guitar amps and thus are not designed for stomp boxes or high gain modelers. You need an acoustic amp or a PA system to take advantage of a Piezo pickup. I would figure that a player of your caliber would already know stuff like this. Sorry for the harsh words but c'mon bro, you must be joking about this.

[mt]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

I came to Canada last september and I left ALL my equipment and guitars back at home, except the zoom.

I came here and bought an acoustic electric because I was playing in a jazz band last semester (stopped... too much other stuff to do).

I know what piezos are meant for, I'm just testing it ok?

In fact, I don't even have an amp right now, I play through my compter, which has a hifi stereo + woofer as a speaker. And I recorded a Bach cello suite using the piezos plugged directly into my computer. (very poorly done.. any classicaly trained guitarist would laugh at it).

I don't plan on buying amps anytime soon, which is why I purposely bought stuff DESIGNED for PA systems/ direct recording: piezo guitar, amp modellers... etc.

so no.. I'm not joking.

[ March 24, 2004, 01:24 PM: Message edited by: mt ]

[OnlineStageGear]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

You can jam anything you want in front of that, you will never get a decent tone with an acoustic/electric.

Matt

[Chuckracer]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

Piezo guitar pickups are NOT designed for direct recording/PA systems. I have no idea where you got that idea, but it's wrong. They are designed for the VERY subtle amplification needs of acoustic guitars, usually used in conjunction with a mic.
The ONLY way you are gopng to get the sound you are looking for is with a solid body electric guitar. A piezo will never ever ever give you a high gain sustaining guitar sound. Ever.

I read your last circus event about Petrucci and ask you to respect what I am telling you. I am 42 years old and have most definitley been there and done that. I've forgotten more about guitars, equipment, and playing than you've learned so far.
So have JG and Matt.
Do not argue with us. You'll just be wrong.

[jgcable]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

Without getting into a pissing match on this... but if you know what piezo's are meant for then why did you ask the question? To answer your question if you are indeed serious....
Don't judge the performance of anything you currently have when using an acoustic/electric with a piezo.
You will be pleasantly surprised when your solid body guitar finally arrives. Just sit tight and wait. It will all be fine.

[mt]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

ok! Thanks for you answer! I will indeed borrow my friend's solid bodies to test it.

I suppose part of the reason I ask is because... the piezos sound pretty decent high gain through the zoom... If you guys want to hear it I can record some stuff. There is some annoying feedback, but since I'm playing through a stereo at low volume, it's not a huge problem. And it sounds decent...

But it would certainly make sense if that is not the case for the tri ac.

BTW, I just want to say, I respect all of you guys that have replied. I do believe you guys forgot more shit than I ever knew, and that is why I'm asking you guys a question. But please be a bit more lenient...? I wasn't trying to argue with anyone but to clear some misunderstandings...

Having said that.. I wasn't entirely sure that piezo's are designed for PAs, I assumed that's the case, as it made sense to me, since piezo guitars have built in preamps. So I did a little research.

I quote from this site http://www.stewmac.com/wiring101/pie...r_pickups.html

"A piezoelectric crystal generates an electric current (signal) when stresses are induced. The signal is sent to a preamp/buffer, and then to a guitar amp or PA"

Also... Isn't one of the design advantages of the piezo to avoid the mic altogether?

[img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img]

[ March 24, 2004, 02:04 PM: Message edited by: mt ]

[Chuckracer]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

I'm trying to be lenient, but coming on here and saying you'll be better than *unsert name here* in two years, well lets just say my guard is up when dealing with you. I'm sorry for that as it is harsh, but...WOW! Really!!

I just read that Stew mac article, and the point you missed is that they are assuming you are amplifying an acoustic guitar to get acoustic guitar sounds, which is how most people amplify acoustic guitars. The very nature of an acoustic guitar and its associated accessories are for fingerpicking or strumming, NOT playing fast overdriven single note lines. The guitar itself does not have the sustain to pull that off, and acoustic pickups are EXTREMELY low output compared to electric stuff, just because of the intended use.

Some folks like the sound of an acoustic with a pickup, some prefer a mic. For recording, the vast majority prefer both. The each have their individual sounds and applications. Playing metal guitar is none of them!

[toejam]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

What they said. Get your normal solid body guitar and then you'll see what the Tri-AC is capable of.
I love the Marshall sound of that pedal (the Fender and Mesa sounds are great as well). The British sound is based on an old Marshall Plexi, so it will definitely need to be pushed with an overdrive pedal for more over-the-top gain (it mentions that in the manual... I just can't find it at the moment, it's hiding where ever I put my Rocktron Surf Tremolo pedal manual [img]graemlins/brow.gif[/img] ). Also, I believe it mentions that the Marshall circuit has a bright-boost capacitor on the gain control just like the old amps, and you'll need to keep the gain above 12 o'clock so it's not as bright. You can even go direct to a PA or mixing board with the pedal if your amp blows up or you want to do direct recording. Tech 21 makes great stuff!! [img]graemlins/headbang.gif[/img]

[Outlander]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

I was going to say ,I thought all piezos required some sort of preamplification to boost the signal before a board or amp or whatever.Definately designed for clear,bright,articulate tone.
But I see you guys all ready covered this [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
For an acoustic guitar I like the combination of a direct mic. w/ piezo's for recording.You get a great full clear tone.

[Firebird V]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

[img]graemlins/scratchhead.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]

[toejam]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

Also, what kind of amp are you using, and are you using the Tri-AC in front of your amp or in the effects loop? It sounds good and can be used either way, and I usually use it in front, but Tech 21 recommends it in the loop if you have one(pedal output into effects return jack) for the least transparent sound without the amp coloring the pedal.

[mt]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

Chuckracer:
Yes you are right, I made an extremely stupid comment then, as I said and apologized for many times. However, I did not come onto this forum to boast. I said that out of impulsiveness.But still, I made a stupid comment and maybe I deserve the harsh treatment. [img]images/icons/frown.gif[/img]

I did not miss those points. Those are exactly the reasons I bought a piezo acoustic electric, for fingerpicking and jazz. The only reason I even plugged the guitar into the tri ac is because I currently have no other guitar.

Weren't we discussing whether piezo guitars are designed to be plugged into the PA?

Thanks for your comments guys. In fact, rythm sounds GREAT with the tri ac, even with an acoustic electric guitar. It's just lacking in gain for leads, the exact same feeling I get when I play through some (older?) marshall amps!

So I guess a more exact question is whether this pedal reacts to boosters in its front in the same way (excellent sounding) as these amps? Toejam?

[toejam]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

Originally posted by mt:
So I guess a more exact question is whether this pedal reacts to boosters in its front in the same way (excellent sounding) as these amps? Toejam?

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yes, it absolutely does. Crank the drive/gain control on the Tri-AC and add the level and gain accordingly on your OD pedal in front of the Tri-AC.

[mt]

Re: push the front of an analogue amp modller?

Man that's awesome to hear!

Thanks again!

doh I'm spending too much money: [img]graemlins/eyes.gif[/img]