Announcement

**Steve** · 04-01-2004, 10:22 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Originally posted by Steve:
http://www.behringer.com/01_news/events.cfm?lang=ENG fuck I can't wait for some of that stuff hey , the pro studio headphones should be cool [I have the hps3000 series and they sound fine better than any other headphones I have ever owned] and I am eyeing up one of those 4 12 cabs right now as well lol. I need a wall of sound I am getting greedy lol .//Steve

and look at those prices on the heads fucking crazy hey . I,ve tryed the combo and they all sound great ! //Steve

**jack w** · 04-01-2004, 12:20 PM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

steve, i have a xxl like you and im thinking about buying a gmx212 combo. is the distortion as good as the xxl? i have to order it so i cant try it before i buy.thanks

**RacerX** · 04-02-2004, 02:04 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Where are they made again? [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

**Steve** · 04-02-2004, 02:42 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Originally posted by RacerX:
Where are they made again? [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

who cares ! Ron go and try one of those vamp pire combos on the engl savage setting . for a 300 buck head they ass kick . and the cabs sound great ! that behringer stuff was made for the married guys forsure cause we got no cash , or for any working musician cause they get no cash either lol //Steve

**Steve** · 04-02-2004, 02:45 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Originally posted by jack w:
steve, i have a xxl like you and im thinking about buying a gmx212 combo. is the distortion as good as the xxl? i have to order it so i cant try it before i buy.thanks

no they aren't as heavy but the vampire has a engl savage setting that sounds way cool and heavy plus you get killer fx's and a good noise gate awesome for heavy stuff . //Steve

**Infernal Death** · 04-02-2004, 03:26 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Behringer really is a joke. They rip off every other brand. Those alu cone bass cabinets are rip-offs from the Hartke bass cabs using alu cone speakers.
Yes Behringer is cheap and that's why they are so successful. But their approach of "designing" new stuff is so low-life. I guess 50% of their whole product line is ripped off from other companies.
For example they aren't allowed to sell their 24channel 8bus mixing console in america because it's a total rip-off from the mackie console and mackie went to court and won against behringer.
Taking the designs from other companies and then making them in china. That's why Behringer is so cheap.

Flo

**RacerX** · 04-02-2004, 03:35 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Originally posted by Infernal Death:

Taking the designs from other companies and then making them in china. That's why Behringer is so cheap.

Flo

Hear, hear. They'll never get my business.

**lerxstcat** · 04-02-2004, 09:56 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Well, it seems that if one person or company comes out with a good design, many other companies soon come out with their version; why is this different?

Ron, I've asked before but you didn't answer. Are you anti-Chinese? The copying thing shouldn't bug C/J fans so much since Charvel started by making Strat copy parts, then Strat copies.

What exactly is your problem or problems with anything made in China? I'm not ragging you; I really want to know more than just "China? Pffft!!".

**Infernal Death** · 04-02-2004, 12:46 PM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Rich, if other companies come out with their version of a new idea it's ok and nothing anybody can prevent. But in Behringer's case they mostly not come out with their version, they simply clone the design. They change the appearance and some knobs and that's it. That's also why Mackie could prevent Behringer from selling their mixing console in america. Mackie could prove before the court that Behringer steals their design.

Yeah i know you asked Ron about the "made in china" thing. But allow me to say something from my view about it. I don't think it's generally spoken a bad thing. Of course it's not that chinese people can't make quality equipment.
It's because companies who want to produce their stuff in china want to produce very cheap.Of course you can train the chinese people in making quality gear and i think they can produce the same quality as americans or europeans can make. But that's not the point of moving the production to china.
That's also the case with Behringer. If you ever opened up a piece of equipment from Behringer you understand. They are very cheap and poorly made. It's not uncommon that Behringer equipment starts to fail after only half a year. Sure that doesn't mean everything from Behringer gets broken after that time, it's just that it's not uncommon.

With Behringer you get exactly what you pay for. It's cheap price-wise and quality-wise.

Flo

**Ace** · 04-02-2004, 04:21 PM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

"Whether for practice, warm-up, rehearsal or recording, BEHRINGER’s V-TONE GMX1200H analog modeling amp head is a natural choice"

Are they acknowledging their amps don't work live? I personally wouldn't play through a Behringer amp. Or have anything Behringer in my signal path when it matters.

Companies import goods from China for one reason, labor AND parts there is dirt cheap. If I'm looking at two products, and one of them is half the price of the other, in spite of having traveled 10,000 miles and been hit with international tariffs, you better believe they cut corners somewhere. The products are made with only cost in mind, and they are made from components made with cost as the deciding factor. On all my VHT gear it says "Built with pride in the USA" or "Hand built by Rockers in the USA". I know that my gear from them is made with top quality components by people who know what they are doing and are being paid a competitive wage. I've met Steven Fryette(the owner of VHT) and I know that he understands more than a thing or two about how amps are supposed to be made. Not that Chinese people are any less intelligent than Americans or anything like that, but if you were getting paid $6 a week, would you give a shit about your job? And would someone getting paid that much be afforded the time per unit or the education to do his job right?

**redmanjj** · 04-02-2004, 04:30 PM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Companies like Behringer have their place, selling cheaper items to people who can't afford "the real thing". However, it comes at a societal cost: if I truly design something unique and valuable, but then it gets ripped off and I'm undersold and lose profit on my idea, what inspires me (as an individual or a company) to spend time and money trying to build a better mousetrap? Why don't I just wait and copy somebody else?

I think this argument holds true whether the item is copied in China, Taiwan, Vietnam, Mexico, Brazil, India, wherever. It's not a racist thing, it's just that these are areas where costs are cheaper.

When you buy an item that is not made in the country of which you are from, you are sending currency out of your economy, and hurting your own society in many cases. (This is one of the FEW things I agree with Ed Roman on).

Can it be avoided? Not in all cases, but maybe if we supported domestic companies more, they could offer their products at lower margins, by an increase in sales volumes.

Bear in mind, I'm from Canada, where we actually have very little domestic manufacturing, and send lots of $$$$ to various countries, including the US.

**lerxstcat** · 04-03-2004, 12:41 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Quality issues are a valid concern, and I've heard good and bad about Behringer gear in that regard. Lots of people have the V-Amps and I haven't heard about them breaking down. These new amps are basically V-amps with a power section, and I imagine they're getting better with time.

See, I remember when everybody said Made in Japan meant POS. The rep for that outlasted the upsurge in quality by about 10 years. A lot of those "shitty" guitars are still around and kicking ass!

Regarding the cloning of designs, most competitors probably examine the leader's design and change it just enough to not be sued; in guitar amplification, you'll be following the same basic ideas as to how to get the sound. Behringer may be most blatant
but I think they all do it for all practical purposes. What are the 5150 and XXX but cheaper SLO and Recto copies, for example? Look at the Wolfgang vs. the EBMM EVH/Axis, and that's a USA company, not one mainly centered in Asian manufacturing.

Sending money out of the country is an issue, but we're tied into the global economy already. Most Americans can't or won't pay the price for US labor and materials in the products. I think the Chinese guy for $6 per week probably has the same motive - survival - as the American making $25 per hour to assemble their respective amps. The Chinese guy is less likely to be smoking the bomb indo on his smoke break, in fact, since they kill you for that shit there. Besides, if you don't want to fight the Chinese, you have to buy stuff from them so their economy can grow.

Having seen the guts of my Korean VS40, it's hard to imagine the Chinese stuff is
that much worse in build quality. Yet that amp is kicking ass many years after it was built, for what it is. It'd be interesting to see the actual failure stats for the Behringer stuff, versus anecdotal tales one way or the other.

**RacerX** · 04-03-2004, 01:27 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Originally posted by lerxstcat:
I've asked before but you didn't answer. Are you anti-Chinese?
What exactly is your problem or problems with anything made in China? I'm not ragging you; I really want to know more than just "China? Pffft!!".

I answered you already. Damn, memory goes in old age, huh, Rich?
[img]graemlins/poke.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

**Steve** · 04-03-2004, 01:43 AM

Re: all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Originally posted by Infernal Death:
Rich, if other companies come out with their version of a new idea it's ok and nothing anybody can prevent. But in Behringer's case they mostly not come out with their version, they simply clone the design. They change the appearance and some knobs and that's it. That's also why Mackie could prevent Behringer from selling their mixing console in america. Mackie could prove before the court that Behringer steals their design.

Yeah i know you asked Ron about the "made in china" thing. But allow me to say something from my view about it. I don't think it's generally spoken a bad thing. Of course it's not that chinese people can't make quality equipment.
It's because companies who want to produce their stuff in china want to produce very cheap.Of course you can train the chinese people in making quality gear and i think they can produce the same quality as americans or europeans can make. But that's not the point of moving the production to china.
That's also the case with Behringer. If you ever opened up a piece of equipment from Behringer you understand. They are very cheap and poorly made. It's not uncommon that Behringer equipment starts to fail after only half a year. Sure that doesn't mean everything from Behringer gets broken after that time, it's just that it's not uncommon.

With Behringer you get exactly what you pay for. It's cheap price-wise and quality-wise.

Flo

cheap ? I would put my rig up against yours any time man and it would sound just as good any day dude ! price yes they are cheaper cause they are assembled in china but the quaility is just as good as anything else . are you pro usa products or what guys ? thats so dumb cause they are made in china that your pissed about that . how bout this mackie and the other companies have been over charging the public for products for years , thats how I see it . it brings the market prices down a bit cause there is some serious competion now so they can stop charging crazy prices on products only worth 200 or 300 dollars . and I have never had any of my behringer products break down dude , so try them out before you slam it blindly ! //Steve

Announcement

all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

all these new products look bloody cool and check out the prices !

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment