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**zeegler** · 04-19-2004, 02:38 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

Originally posted by Matt Crooks:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by zeegler:
You know what, even if the quality remains exactly the same, I would not buy a Chinese made speaker for the same price as an English made speaker on principal alone. It's not that I think the Chinese workers don't deserve the same wages as western workers, because, as we all know, they're not the ones who get the money.

No, they're not. But if you have an IRA, 401(k) or other stock investments, you do get the money from your investments. <hr /></blockquote>Yeah, if your conscience will allow you to make a couple of bucks at the expense of people's jobs.

**Matt Crooks** · 04-20-2004, 12:27 AM

Re: celestion moved production to china

Originally posted by zeegler:
You know what, even if the quality remains exactly the same, I would not buy a Chinese made speaker for the same price as an English made speaker on principal alone. It's not that I think the Chinese workers don't deserve the same wages as western workers, because, as we all know, they're not the ones who get the money.

No, they're not. But if you have an IRA, 401(k) or other stock investments, you do get the money from your investments.

**Matt Crooks** · 04-20-2004, 08:41 AM

Re: celestion moved production to china

Originally posted by zeegler:
Yeah, if your conscience will allow you to make a couple of bucks at the expense of people's jobs.

I have no problem with it. If the same quality can be had by exporting the jobs, by all means do it. Keeping production here just so that jobs stay here creates a short-sided loss on the economy and causes prices for everyone to go up. Let the free market dictate where work is done, Communisim was tried, it didn't work.

**xjimmyleungx** · 04-20-2004, 09:37 AM

Re: celestion moved production to china

thats a shame

???????? WTF
i'm a chinese and i'm quite annoyed about people who look down on china
Products from china are all over the world, they are great, also i think they are capable of making some quality stuff, the only problems might be the investments and companies stuff.

well... at least china went to space few months ago [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]

**RacerX** · 04-20-2004, 03:52 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

Originally posted by Matt Crooks:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by zeegler:
Yeah, if your conscience will allow you to make a couple of bucks at the expense of people's jobs.

I have no problem with it. If the same quality can be had by exporting the jobs, by all means do it. Communisim was tried, it didn't work. <hr /></blockquote>How about at the expense of people's lives or human rights?

And communism didn't work? Wake up, you are supporting the Communist Chinese Army [img]graemlins/evilimages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

http://www.nlcnet.org/campaigns/arch...contents.shtml

**442w30** · 04-20-2004, 04:05 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

Chinese PEOPLE are great, it is the politics that should/does turn people off. The history of Marshall, Laney, Celestion, etc. is in England. The history of Gibson and Fender are American. Changing the legacy of craftsmen into a finely tuned assembly line in another country is what is sickening, especially when it goes to a place known for human rights violations and suppression of the fredoms that most of the musicians that use the products enjoy. Sorry for the rant, but it is a fact.

**Black Mariah** · 04-20-2004, 07:58 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

There is no question that for a lot of people it IS a racist thing. If Celestion was shutting down and moving to the US I doubt that anyone would think twice about it. If an American company moved to England, nobody would care. Race plays a huge factor, and you're crazy if you think it doesn't (I'm not saying anything about anyone talking in this thread, but I've run into this subject before).

The overriding variable is that the quality of Chinese goods is usually rather poor. This is due to the production line standards, and not the workers. Quantity over quality. You can have one or the other, not both. The Chinese factories could EASILY turn out stuff to rival the best anywhere else, but that's not what they're asked to do in most cases. They're asked to make the cheapest possible product, quality be damned.

**442w30** · 04-20-2004, 09:35 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

I agree with Mariah on most of this, but I think that Brits would be pissed if Americans took their jobs and some of their industry. Just look at when Ford ought Jaguar. Not a lot of happy Englishmen, even though Ford did improve the lines (in a quality respect - Jags have always been 'finicky'). When Daimler bought er merged with Chrysler, people were upset - because generations of Americans bought and worked for Chrysler, the move of control shook a lot of people, even though Germans are white - It's a Nationalist thing I guess more than racial, people like to keep their Identity, and English Amp and Speaker building is a piece of that. Moving the part of that where the rubber meets the road (factory) to ANY foreign country would be upsetting to them or people that respect the folks that did it.
That being said, I agree that race probably does motivate some people in these circumstances, but that's not the underlying disappoitment with this.
I just hope they are building a 'cheaper or different line' to supplement the ones we know and trust (V30, greenback, etc.) If they take the other stuff overseas, maybe it will ease the financial pressure on the Co and let them sell $10 stereo speakers at wal-mart to make a profit all the while supplying what we want.

**KidPredator** · 04-20-2004, 11:25 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

Originally posted by 442w30:
where the rubber meets the road

Someone has wathed one too many commercials... [img]graemlins/images/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

Do you have Firestone tires on your Olds? [img]graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

When the sidewall pops off at 65mph you will be as out of control as this topic.

**xjimmyleungx** · 04-21-2004, 05:33 AM

Re: celestion moved production to china

And communism didn't work?

well if commumusim sucks... they wouldnt beat the nationalists (even with the help of US) ...how well do you know about chinese history, and do you know how corrupted are the nationalists at that time? even if communism didnt take over china.... look at the population in china, it will probably be pretty much the same anyways

Wake up, you are supporting the Communist Chinese Army

i'm awake and i support them. even if communisum didnt work, i'm glad china was communism. At least we're pretty independant right now, we dont have to live with US orders like taiwan or britain does. i'm not sure if british pm tony blaire is a good example...but look at taiwan now, they are buying weapons from US and listening to whatever they say.

maybe some of you are right, human rights violations and suppression of the freedoms. Its about political issues, but unless you have been to china, you wont believe how fast it is developing. Go to shanghai, or even guangjou, do you know how it changed like compared to 5 years ago? China also has skillful people and its all changing. Perhaps it's time for everyone to change their views on China.

Not trying to pick a fight (theres no point for me to do so, this is a great community), i just want to speak out my own views and what i believe as a person who actually lives in China.

Peace [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

**zeegler** · 04-21-2004, 06:08 AM

Re: celestion moved production to china

Originally posted by xjimmyleungx:
we dont have to live with US orders like taiwan or britain does. i'm not sure if british pm tony blaire is a good example...but look at taiwan now, they are buying weapons from US and listening to whatever they say.

Not trying to pick a fight [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

You're not trying to pick a fight, yet you start off by slamming Britain and Taiwan. I think you've been brainwashed by the communist regime. [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

**xjimmyleungx** · 04-21-2004, 06:45 AM

Re: celestion moved production to china

oh shit i am not slamming britain and taiwan, i'm just being honest, and a fact is a fact. i am not saying everyone in US or Britan or Taiwan is evil and wicked. Look at Mr Tony Blaire, he follows Bush around and do what he wants(you know what i mean if you watch the news), and i am definitely not the only one who believes that. Lots of people in Britain also agree with that i am sure. The taiwan case, i'm sure you know about their demand for independant ..the fake shots ..etc, and US is supporting them behind. Imagine one of the US states wants to be independant (i've heard that the mexicans in California wants to, correct me if i'm wrong tho), then another nation is supporting their independence by supporting them and provide military help. i believe there's a motive behind it also.

brainwashed by the communist regime.

sorry bro but i'm not. (people who got brainwashed wont admit anyways...)

**buzzsaww** · 04-22-2004, 10:33 AM

Re: celestion moved production to china

tony blair was up clinton's ass too, he just loves the US.

**jacksonaxes** · 04-22-2004, 07:58 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

My Boss pedals say made in Japan on them, get your fact's straight!

**PallarAndersVisa** · 04-22-2004, 09:03 PM

Re: celestion moved production to china

i dont want **** making my speakers!

[ April 23, 2004, 08:42 AM: Message edited by: Ralph E. ]

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celestion moved production to china

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